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Topic: James Rae & Margaret Paul - Muiravonside (Read 716 times)
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Dano
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Posts: 71
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I am in contact with 16 people who are all descendants of this couple who married 1742 in Muiravonside and that is amazing. There are still a few children of the couple whose fate is unknown. Can anyone help here and is anyone related to this family?
Children
Andrew Rae b 1743 m Margaret Bartholomew
James Rae b 1746 m Jean Baird
David Rae b 1748 - no trace
William Rae b 1751 m Mary Thomson
John Rae b 1753 - no trace
Margaret Rae b 1755 - no trace
Peter Rae b 1758 m Elizabeth Gardiner 1783 Polmont - no further information
Thomas Rae b 1762 m Helen Evan/Euan
If anyone connects to this family or can shed any light on the "missing" members, I would love to hear.
Regards
Dano
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Stirlingshire, Scotland - Aitken, Waddell, Wilson, Rae, Dunlop, Liddell, McLuckie. Laird
Carmarthen, Wales - Lewis
Carvan, Ireland - Coyle
N.S.W. Australia - Lewis, Morris
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apanderson
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Posts: 923
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Hi Dano,
Found this birth for you in the BVRs:
RAE, Elisabeth
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1783
Christening Date: 21 Dec 1783
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: Peter RAE
Mother: Elisabeth GARDINER
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
This is the only child listed to this couple.
Next,
RAE, Thomas
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 29 May 1784
Christening Date: 6 Jun 1784
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: Thomas RAE
Mother: Helen EUAN
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
Again, the only child listed to this couple, but under a different variation of Euan (Ewing) I found the following:
RAE, Colin
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 Mar 1793
Christening Date: 10 Mar 1793
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: Thomas RAE
Mother: Helen EWING
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
RAE, Helen
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 3 Aug 1798
Christening Date: 12 Aug 1798
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: Thomas RAE
Mother: Helen EWING
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
RAE, Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 25 Apr 1805
Christening Date: 5 May 1805
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: Thomas RAE
Mother: Helen EWING
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
RAE, William
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1807
Christening Date: 19 Nov 1807
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: Thomas RAE
Mother: Helen EWING
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
After finding this lot, I thought I'd see if I had any luck with William and Mary, here goes:
REA, Margaret
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 Aug 1779
Christening Date: 5 Sep 1779
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: William REA
Mother: Mary THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
REA, Janet
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 10 Jan 1782
Christening Date: 13 Jan 1782
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: William REA
Mother: Mary THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
RAE, Peter
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 17 Jun 1785
Christening Date: 26 Jun 1785
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: William RAE
Mother: Mary THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
See next message for more . . . . .
Anne
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apanderson
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 923
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More births, this time to a David Rae, don't know whether this is the correct David but it's the only one listed in Stirlingshire.
RAE, Marshal
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 10 Jul 1771
Recorded in: St. Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: David RAE
Mother: Margaret PEACOCK
Source: FHL Film 1041956 Dates: 1688 - 1819
REA, Margaret
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 7 Apr 1773
Recorded in: St. Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: David REA
Mother: Margaret PEACOCK
Source: FHL Film 1041956 Dates: 1688 - 1819
REA, Anne
Gender: Female
Christening Date:14 Nov 1776
Recorded in:St. Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: David REA
Mother: Margaret PEACOCK
Source: FHL Film 1041956 Dates: 1688 - 1819
REA, James
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 16 Nov 1781
Recorded in: St. Ninians, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: David REA
Mother: Margaret PEACOCK
Source: FHL Film 1041956 Dates: 1688 - 1819
Am I on a roll here or what???
Next I looked for births to a John Rae/Rea in 1773 +/- 5 years
There were 7 of them all living in Stirlingshire:
John Rae + Jean Buchanan (St. Ninians)
John Rae + Janet Laurie (St. Ninians)
John Rae + Agnes Watt (Kippen)
John Rae + Katharine Lecky (Bothkennar)
John Rea + Margret Melvin (Larbert)
John Rae + Elizabeth Wark (Slamannan)
John Rae + Christian Baxter (Polmont)
I couldn't resist the last couple so I looked for their children who were:
RAE, Mary
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 1 May 1777
Christening Date: 11 May 1777
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: John RAE
Mother: Christian BAXTER
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
RAE, Christian
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 18 Sep 1786
Christening Date: 1 Oct 1786
Recorded in: Polmont, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: John RAE
Mother: Christian BAXTER
Source: FHL Film 1041955 Dates: 1732 - 1855
What do you think of this lot??
I hope it's given you some food for thought!
Anne
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Dano
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
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Hello Anne,
thanks for this and I will certainly check it out, particularly the David Rae & Margaret Peacock. I had nothing on them, this good be very interesting
Regards
Dano
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Stirlingshire, Scotland - Aitken, Waddell, Wilson, Rae, Dunlop, Liddell, McLuckie. Laird
Carmarthen, Wales - Lewis
Carvan, Ireland - Coyle
N.S.W. Australia - Lewis, Morris
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Dano
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
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Hi Anne,
not too sure about David but am fairly confident that John & Christian Baxter are our couple. They were married 1771 Muiravonside which fits with the family
Found a lot more children
Sarah 1773 Muiravonside
Margaret 1774 Muiravonside
Margaret 1777 Polmont
Mary 1777 Polmont
Mary 1779 Muiravonside
John 1781 Muiravonside
Jean 1784 Carriden West Lothian
Christian 1786 Polmont
William 1790 Shotts
James 1793 barony
James GRO Birth Index lists him as the 11th child so I am still missing one
29/09/1793 REA JAMES JOHN REA/CHRISTIAN BAXTER FR823 CHILD 11 U BARONY 622/00 0003 No Image
Thank you very much for putting me onto this couple. I will claim them for now but keep looking for supporting evidence.
Thanks again
Dano
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Stirlingshire, Scotland - Aitken, Waddell, Wilson, Rae, Dunlop, Liddell, McLuckie. Laird
Carmarthen, Wales - Lewis
Carvan, Ireland - Coyle
N.S.W. Australia - Lewis, Morris
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Kibble
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
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I know one set of descendants and happy to share info
if you make contact
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Dano
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
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Hi Kibble,
will send you a PM
thanks
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Stirlingshire, Scotland - Aitken, Waddell, Wilson, Rae, Dunlop, Liddell, McLuckie. Laird
Carmarthen, Wales - Lewis
Carvan, Ireland - Coyle
N.S.W. Australia - Lewis, Morris
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Kibble
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
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My e mail has changed - if you contact me I will supply info from James Rae/ Margaret Rae line
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colliersbairn
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
I am a descendant of Thomas Rae and Helen Ewan through their son James Rae born in 1790 in Polmont. He married Jean or Jane Sharp and they moved to Skinflats in the Parish of Bothkennar near Falkirk or Larbert. Their daughter Margaret Rae married William Penman.
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Dano
RootsChat Extra
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Hi There,
yes I have Margaret Rae as the 2nd wife of William Penman. Margaret died 1889 Bothkennar according to a MI listing and William died 6 Aug 1875 also in Bothkennar according to his death certificate.
I have 4 children for William Penman & his 1st wife and 11 for William & Margaret Rae. Which branch of the family are you interested in? Perhaps we can share information.
Cheers
Dano
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Stirlingshire, Scotland - Aitken, Waddell, Wilson, Rae, Dunlop, Liddell, McLuckie. Laird
Carmarthen, Wales - Lewis
Carvan, Ireland - Coyle
N.S.W. Australia - Lewis, Morris
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colliersbairn
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Dano,
I am descended through the youngest son by the only wife, as I am led to believe - Margaret Rae. Their youngest son was Robert Thomas. Correct me if I am wrong though. I went to New Registry House in the 1990's and could not get any farther back than William and Margaret Penman. You see there were two William and Margaret's in the same parish and it wasn't obvious which one was which. I hired a researcher and she sorted it out by using the census and found all the christening records for William Penman and Margaret Rae. I also looked around Bothkennar churchyard and found the obelisk for William Penman's family. There was certainly not two wives buried there. However, if you have proof, please let me know. The other William Penman married Margaret Welsh.
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apanderson
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 923
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Hi guys,
Hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in . . . . .
colliersbairn - the obelisk you refer to in Bothkennar - how recently did you see it - was it at the same time you went to Edinburgh in the 1990's?
I've been back and forward a few times to Bothkennar Churchyard over the past couple of years and the only obelisk there was one lying on the ground beneath bushes, obviously broken. It has fallen on it's front and the only inscription now visible is that of children and the following is what I think are the details (the inscription is pretty weathered):
"Sacred to the memory of ANDREW PENMAN died 3rd March 1843? aged 9 months
CHRISTINA PENMAN died 4th September 1852 aged 6? years
WILLIAM PENMAN died 22nd February 1854? aged 9 months
JAMES PENMAN died 28th November 1872? aged 21 years
ANDREW PENMAN died 6th August 1874 in the 25th year of his age"
Double checking the above MI against the Mitchells pre-1855 Book, they had the same dates as above for all the children and they obviously were able to see the remainer which verifies that these were the children of William Penman and Margaret Rae. The book also adds that the stone was erected in 1872 by William Penman so probably this would be around the date of death of his son James.
Also according to this book, there was a stone next to this obelisk (which I didn't find) and the inscription on that was:
"(Erected by)William Penman & Janet Laird
To their daughter Eliza M. Laird who died 8th May 1889 aged 14"
There's a third stone beside these two which has the inscription:
"Erected by Andrew Penman & G. McLuckie his wife in memory of their family
MARGARET died 11th April 1859 aged 15 months
JAMES died 1st June 1860 aged 7 months
JANE beloved wife of J. Russell died 20th September 1875 aged 21 years
CATHERINE died 3rd October 1876 aged 24 years
The above named ANDREW PENMAN died 3rd September 1888 aged 64 years
ANDREW Junior died 2nd October 1888 aged 32 years"
The only other Penman in Bothkenner (at least one with a stone) is this one:
"Here rests the body of GRISEL ROSS spouse to the Rev John Penman
To her Christ ….? Both in life and death June 25th 1756?
And in a life of unveiled? Piety and Diligence in the work of the Gospel
Rests here also the body of the Reverend Mr. JOHN PENMAN late Minister of the Gospel at Bothkennar
Who departed this life 15th? July 1765
Reader if thou wouldest die his death live his Life"
If either of you would like photos of any of the above stones, send me a PM with your personal e-mail address and I'll forward copies.
Anne
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colliersbairn
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Anne,
Yes, I actually saw and took pictures of all of them. William Penman and Margaret Rae were the obelisk which wasn't under a tree in the 1990's although it was on the ground. I guess it's been rolled. The William Penman of Janet Laird is William's son. Andrew Penman is William's brother. The Rev. Penman and wife Grisel Ross are, as far as I know, no relation as they were from Midlothian. There is also a small, crude Rae headstone which, if memory serves, is the grave of Margaret Rae's siblings. However, memory is a bit creaky right now.
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colliersbairn
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Anne,
I forgot to mention...I believe the William Penman, Janet Laird notation is actually on the obelisk not a separate stone at all. It's on the other side. It was confusing to me so I went back to Canada and tried to figure out who this mystery child was.
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Dano
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Hi Colliersbairn & Anne,
I had assumed incorrectly it seems that William had 1st married Margaret Welsh. A silly mistake in hindsight.
William Penman married to Janet Laird is the only marriage I have for the children of William & Margaret Rae. I relate to both William and to Janet Laird.
Dano
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Stirlingshire, Scotland - Aitken, Waddell, Wilson, Rae, Dunlop, Liddell, McLuckie. Laird
Carmarthen, Wales - Lewis
Carvan, Ireland - Coyle
N.S.W. Australia - Lewis, Morris
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