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Topic: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he? (Read 33048 times)
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PrueM
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7376
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Denn you are being a great detective! You're right about the pic not necessarily being of one of the crew. It would probably make more sense to carry a pic of someone else, not yourself!
Would be great if someone could find the service records of this crew. I think that would be the key.
Off to bed now - looking forward to seeing what progress you all make while I'm asleep! 
Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)
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manmack
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2076
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denns right,it could be one of the crews kid brothers,you will still have to find the crew member in order to find his kid brother,my moneys still on the lad on the right,i cant speak for the rest of you folks but i think this is going to have a good ending,mack
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military history,mainly ww1,manchester pals battalions,tyneside irish +tyneside scottish brigades,leeds,liverpool,accrington,birmingham,hull,barnsley,swansea and salford pals.
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Caroline_d
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
All information is appreciated
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Denn,,,I had come across the Simmonds site a when I started this and had no luck with a reply. There was also another posting by someone called Tina who I contacted and had some details, she had hiked in the mountains and came across the momument and posted on a notice board if anyone had information.
I have emailed a number of places suggested here and have had a reply from the Canadian Legion who said the following:
"I regret that there is little that the Legion can do in this matter. I will however pass your e-mail to the Legion Magazine to see if anything can be done there.
Bob Butt
Director Communications"
The Canadian War Museum said the following:
"I will ask our (Friends of the Canadian War Museum) researcher how best to assist you in identifying the young airman in the photograph. He may be able to assist directly or point you in the right way.
Cheers, Bill Smith, FCWM Chief of Friends Services and Deputy Secretary"
I will keep you posted on others as they reply.
Denn, There is another site, which you may come across...I've emailed him in case he has info...I think this was the guy my cousin contacted previously and either him or Tina supplied the photo of all the crew (memory fails me at the moment!). His site is:
http://www.gpswalker.co.uk/wellington.htm
he has a number of details on other crash sites...so maybe others searching might be interested to take a look.
It is possible that the picture was of a family member...this was in my first posting as a possinility or maybe they had the picture to pass on etc but the only connection we have to go on at the moment is the plane crew...so I guess it's a place to start.
Another site I found had all Canadian Servicemen listed...so it might be useful for others.
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=collections/books/bww2
thanks everyone for your great efforts I can't belive the response so far...
Caroline
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Anges Weild - Annan - married William Blenkinsop - Annan
Jane Scott, Roxborough who married William Hope (children, Wilhelmina Amelia, Horatio Nelson Trafalga Hope!)
James Blenkinsop (born Dumfries)
James Blenkinsop (born Lancashire)
Wilhelmina Blenkisop (born Surrey) married Arthur Price (Wales)
Henry Reginald Price (Brecon, South Wales)
Evans (Coelbren, Wales)
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Janice M
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2446
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Hi Caroline
Just to let you know. I have found a family named Burke still living in Bathurst, New Brunswick. (It is the only one.) I will PM you his address, just in case all else fails. He may know who this boy is, or may know how to get in touch with the other families. There were so many of the other names living in Montreal, that it would have been too much to try and get in touch with all.
The Canadian Legion's magazine has done this before, so it is likely, that they will do it for you. Again, if you have any problems getting the television stations or newspapers to take an interest, let me know and I will see what I can do from this end.
Janice
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Elder, Stewart, Johnston, Baskerville, Marks, Carson, Leitch, Bulloch, Thomson, Allen, Campbell, Gordon, Murray, Kelly, Chambers, Black, Cheyne, Youngson, Williamsdaughter, Anderson, Briggs, Pirie, Clark, Philp, Mannel, Lander, Rough, Lean, Bate, Lanxon, Brown, Oliver, Kitt, Shards, Bennet, Young, Petrie, Wylie, Herbertson, Martin, McAlister, Best, Ginn, Ross, McIntosh, McGillivray, Russell, Pettigrew, Fyfe, Barrie
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dennford
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2132
just resting for a while
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Thank's for that Caroline.
I am still trying, (although I'm not as confident as Mack - for reasons I shall explain later).
I am currently waiting for a reply from Tina, who you have already contacted. I am also waiting for replies from several other people or organizations. I have also been invited to post on the following site
The only thing we can do is to add the details of the crew along with the photo to the site in the hope that someone may be able to help.
If you wish us to do so then please let us know
Regards
Len Smith
(webmaster)
NOTE THAT THE SITE HAS NOW CHANGED
We suggest you enter the site through the HOME PAGE ONLY at http://www.worldwar2exraf.co.uk/
Now Mack! my reasons for being pessimistic about this outcome (although I hope I'm wrong)
1. being young men it is doubtfull if they have any descendant's, while any living relatives may by now have little or no contact with ex servicemens organizations.
2. As I said previously it appears that because the were on a training exersise they received no award or citation ( I'd like to think I am wrong here once again)
3. There are sites or organizations associated with bomber, fighter and coastal command but these guys were presumably in training command so had no background so to speak - there may be one exeption to this, I would imagine that william allison having reached the rank of flt lt may possibly have had some previous .
One more minor point, while working on the photo, I could see no badges or rank other than the Shoulder flashes - this indicates that the pic was taken while in basic training.
Many thanks to all
Denn
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Ford, Baines, Dixon, Platts, Peat, Proctor, Rotherforth, Dakin/Daykin, Sales, Beech, Hall, Parkin, Nightingale. ----- Harthill, Waleswood, Woodhouse-mill, Whitwell
South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire
Torremocha, Candog, Ramos, Reyes, Rodrigueus
-------Philippines --- Bohol
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dennford
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2132
just resting for a while
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Hi
I had another look at Carolines picture of the crew, Why has no one noticed that the third from the left is called Ernest ? - possibly Joseph Paul Ernest Burke! 20yrs old - sgt wireless op'/gunner.
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Ford, Baines, Dixon, Platts, Peat, Proctor, Rotherforth, Dakin/Daykin, Sales, Beech, Hall, Parkin, Nightingale. ----- Harthill, Waleswood, Woodhouse-mill, Whitwell
South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire
Torremocha, Candog, Ramos, Reyes, Rodrigueus
-------Philippines --- Bohol
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manmack
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2076
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the plane they were flying was MF509, MF is the code lettering for 108 and 280 squadrons,its also the code for the 59th operations training unit but this is a night fighter training unit,the unit they were in when they were killed was the 22 operations training unit,this unit used wellington Mk III DF549s and DF578s,that means the plane they were killed in which was MF509 was their own aircraft,so they could have been training for night operations or a specific mission and not under training as a new crew,they always used their own plane when practising for a mission and not one of the training squadrons aircraft because thats the one they will be using in action,its likely they had only been on daylight bombing missions and were under training for nighttime bombing,denns got a point about the photo,you can eliminate ernest,hes not the lad in the picture,well spotted denn,mack
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military history,mainly ww1,manchester pals battalions,tyneside irish +tyneside scottish brigades,leeds,liverpool,accrington,birmingham,hull,barnsley,swansea and salford pals.
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Caroline_d
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
All information is appreciated
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Apologies all...I thought I'd noted this on an old message when I posted the picture about Ernest third from the left! Although I don't know who wrote it and if if it correct.
I've found some information in New Brunswick, Canada, they have archives etc on the locals, nothing on Ernest but there is details of the graves of his parents, where they are buried etc and others with the same surname, maybe other relatives. I've emailed hoping they have further information in their archives maybe Ernest has a sibling still alive who can identify for sure and then eliminate.
Caroline
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Anges Weild - Annan - married William Blenkinsop - Annan
Jane Scott, Roxborough who married William Hope (children, Wilhelmina Amelia, Horatio Nelson Trafalga Hope!)
James Blenkinsop (born Dumfries)
James Blenkinsop (born Lancashire)
Wilhelmina Blenkisop (born Surrey) married Arthur Price (Wales)
Henry Reginald Price (Brecon, South Wales)
Evans (Coelbren, Wales)
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dennford
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2132
just resting for a while
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I have spent quite sometime on this site which archives Canadian news reports during the war yet it seems strange that our boys weren't listed among the R.C.A.F. lists of war dead, in fact there appears to be no report in any of the papers?
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Ford, Baines, Dixon, Platts, Peat, Proctor, Rotherforth, Dakin/Daykin, Sales, Beech, Hall, Parkin, Nightingale. ----- Harthill, Waleswood, Woodhouse-mill, Whitwell
South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire
Torremocha, Candog, Ramos, Reyes, Rodrigueus
-------Philippines --- Bohol
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dennford
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2132
just resting for a while
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I have spent quite sometime on this site
http://tinyurl.com/cyfba
which archives Canadian news reports during the war yet it seems strange that our boys weren't listed among the R.C.A.F. lists of war dead, in fact there appears to be no report in any of the papers?
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 01 November 05 21:47 UTC (UK) by deadants »
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Ford, Baines, Dixon, Platts, Peat, Proctor, Rotherforth, Dakin/Daykin, Sales, Beech, Hall, Parkin, Nightingale. ----- Harthill, Waleswood, Woodhouse-mill, Whitwell
South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire
Torremocha, Candog, Ramos, Reyes, Rodrigueus
-------Philippines --- Bohol
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Janice M
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2446
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Hi Caroline
I sent the city of Bathurst, New Brunswick, an e-mail. I hope you don't mind, but I also sent copies of the photo's. I have told them your story, and hopefully they will get back to me.
The more I look at the photo's, the more convinced I am that the photo is of either J.P. Ernest Burke, or a relative. The photo of the crew, specifically centers on Ernest, and they have the same hair, facial features, etc. in both photos.
Because the city of Bathurst only has one Burke family living there, and that is exactly where J.P.E. Burke was from, I thought that it was a very good possibility that this was a family member.
Because I have written to them, during business hours, I am hoping to hear from them either today or tomorrow. I will let you know as soon as I do.
Janice
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Elder, Stewart, Johnston, Baskerville, Marks, Carson, Leitch, Bulloch, Thomson, Allen, Campbell, Gordon, Murray, Kelly, Chambers, Black, Cheyne, Youngson, Williamsdaughter, Anderson, Briggs, Pirie, Clark, Philp, Mannel, Lander, Rough, Lean, Bate, Lanxon, Brown, Oliver, Kitt, Shards, Bennet, Young, Petrie, Wylie, Herbertson, Martin, McAlister, Best, Ginn, Ross, McIntosh, McGillivray, Russell, Pettigrew, Fyfe, Barrie
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Janice M
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2446
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Hi Caroline,
The site I e-mailed, is their municipal government office. I gave them the name and address of the Burke family living there, along with the phone number. I figured that elected officials might want to do a good deed. I have not heard anything back, but I figure they will get back to me within a few days at most. If not, I can send them another message. Most if not all of our communities here do a Remembrance Day service, and I thought that this would be a good 'Human Interest' story for them.
I will let you know as soon as I hear from them.
Janice
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Elder, Stewart, Johnston, Baskerville, Marks, Carson, Leitch, Bulloch, Thomson, Allen, Campbell, Gordon, Murray, Kelly, Chambers, Black, Cheyne, Youngson, Williamsdaughter, Anderson, Briggs, Pirie, Clark, Philp, Mannel, Lander, Rough, Lean, Bate, Lanxon, Brown, Oliver, Kitt, Shards, Bennet, Young, Petrie, Wylie, Herbertson, Martin, McAlister, Best, Ginn, Ross, McIntosh, McGillivray, Russell, Pettigrew, Fyfe, Barrie
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wellington_crew_name.jpg