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Author Topic: help with my little mystery.please  (Read 933 times)
dwalin
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looking into the past.lets you see the future
help with my little mystery.please
« on: Friday 04 November 05 10:28 GMT (UK) »
i have found the following ,Robert Full marries Betty Dugdall 07th January 1823 Brixham
Devon

Then when i look up Betty or Elizabeth Dugdall between 1795 and 1812 there are only two:

Betty Dugdall christened 28th March 1799 Brixham Devon Father Jasper Dugdale mother Rosamond

Elizabeth Dugdall christened 7th May 1801 Berry Pomeroy, Devon Father John mother Mary
There are no other entries under these names
.
this i believe is them in 1841.i know the dates are out a bit but still because of the children i know these are mine.

Robert Full aged 40 Sawyer
Elizabeth Full aged 30 wife
Jane Full aged 15
Robert Full aged 15
Joseph Full aged 11
John Full aged 6
Henry Full aged 3
William Full aged 2
can anyone help me determine which elizabeth is mine .i have ran out of ideas.can someone throw me some.please. Sad
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harris , penrose,jose.davison.layton.leighton.summerson.bennet.clasper.wallett.cadwallader.johnson.jobling.bell (cook?)      http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/hs1990
craig.stokoe.marshall.chalmers.white.bainbridge.waite.trevena.trenwith.polkinghorn.dixon.jopling.powell.ivey.greenhow
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sillgen
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #1 on: Friday 04 November 05 12:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Remember that ages above 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5 in 1841 so Elizabeth could have been between 30 and 34.   Where are you looking for baptisms?   The IGI is not full coverage by any means so there may well be many others in parishes that are not on the IGI.   If you can find them in 1851 that will give a place of birth and then you can look at the parish register there.  Have you found her death?   How old was she then?
There is a Robert Full b 1801 place unknown,  a Sawyer in 1851, in Tormoham? near Torquay who has obviously married again to an Ann so if he is the correct one you need to look for a death for Elizabeth between 1841 and 1851.   Henry and William are with him.   Reference HO 107 1872 F424 p32
Andrea
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dwalin
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looking into the past.lets you see the future
Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 05 November 05 12:17 GMT (UK) »
thank you i will try your suggestions.thanks again
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harris , penrose,jose.davison.layton.leighton.summerson.bennet.clasper.wallett.cadwallader.johnson.jobling.bell (cook?)      http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/hs1990
craig.stokoe.marshall.chalmers.white.bainbridge.waite.trevena.trenwith.polkinghorn.dixon.jopling.powell.ivey.greenhow
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Chris Penrose
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 06 November 05 19:38 GMT (UK) »
Julie

I am going to post this reply on the other group as well.

You found two potential Elizabeth's. Andrea is entirely correct in her statement of the age-range. The enumerators' instructions at the commencement of each enumeration district - preceding the Southwark example - provide guidance not only to them, but also present and future readers of the 1841 census recordings.

This means a birth year of 1806-1811 for the Elizabeth on this census entry.

You mentioned elsewhere having access to the 1851 Ancestry.com: Try this, as I see from Cornwall that the originals have the exact age quoted as at the census date.

I found three deaths in the registration district of Newton Abbot on BMD for 1841 to 1851. I was trying to check the scanned pages from GRO to see if the transcription was correct, but the scanned page that comes up does not contain "FULL" is wrong, and the October Qtr 1850 pages for the letter "F" are incomplete! If there is anyone from FreeBMD reading this, there was not a facility against this particular entry to report this.

One thing though. If the Robert FULL married to Ann on the 1851 census entry found by Andrea is the same man, then it is highly unlikely (and morally reprehensible) that the 1850 death is the correct one!

When you repost the topic on DigUpYourAncestors could you revise the potential birthdates for Elizabeth?

All the best

Chris
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Penrose Pollard Pascoe Stoddern Bowers Bennetts Stephens Milnes Lagur/Lagor Maddern Starkey Laity Chappell
dwalin
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #4 on: Monday 07 November 05 11:04 GMT (UK) »
 Angry im sorry if i have got the dates wrong but they were the only ones i could find.i post on here to get advice and learn .so thank you for it i will repost when and if i find more information.i do think my robert was married to ann in 1851 .i also think that elizabeth dies in 1841.thank you
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harris , penrose,jose.davison.layton.leighton.summerson.bennet.clasper.wallett.cadwallader.johnson.jobling.bell (cook?)      http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/hs1990
craig.stokoe.marshall.chalmers.white.bainbridge.waite.trevena.trenwith.polkinghorn.dixon.jopling.powell.ivey.greenhow
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roma44
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 17 March 07 18:43 GMT (UK) »
Did you ever solve the mystery re Betty DUGDALL who married Robert FULL?
I have a will of Jasper DUGDALL which mentions his daughter as Betty FULL wife of Robert FULL which would obviously solve your mystery.
My husband is descended from John Dugdall, Bettys brother. 
I would be happy to share any other information I have.
Regards
Roma
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RonnieG
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 27 March 07 17:34 BST (UK) »
Chris,

I have to take issue with your statement:

"One thing though. If the Robert FULL married to Ann on the 1851 census entry found by Andrea is the same man, then it is highly unlikely (and morally reprehensible) that the 1850 death is the correct one!"

It would not be unusual for a widower to re-marry soon after the death of his wife, particularly if he had young children to raise while trying to earn a living which would, likely as not, require long hours. His new bride would probably be well known to him as communities were smaller and closer.

RonnieG
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Dyer - Paignton Devon
Rhodes - Wistow, Yorkshire
Moorman- Isle of Wight
Oliver - Surrey
White & Delaney - Dublin
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liverpool lass
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 27 March 07 17:58 BST (UK) »
i agree Ronnie. I have seen this happen often.
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Lewis/Morgan - Carmarthenshire
Jones - Denbighshire
McCormack/McLoughlin - Liverpool
McKenzie - Liverpool/Lanarkshire/ Aus/USA/NZ
Evans - Merionethshire
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Jones - Glamorgan
Wood - Nova Scotia, Mass, USA
Booth - Aus
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Chris Penrose
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 27 March 07 18:28 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the opportunity to answer this.

I apologise without qualification for the remark made above, which was flippant, and made without any sensitivity for those whose ancestor had to marry again quickly, particularly for their or their children's needs.

Since this posting I have discovered more of my own family's history, and now know that my maternal Grandfather by birth died in 1951, and my Grandmother then had to take on up to three jobs at one time to support my mother and uncle.

Quite quickly she married a man who was in a similar position , though with just one child of his own. Being a man, he was able to command a higher rate of pay for stronger manual work. My Grandmother still had to work two jobs though as they could never afford any more than accommodation through the corporation.

So in the light of that, my eyes and attitudes have been changed, and I now approach any such discoveries with an open mind unfettered by moral judgement and with an open mind.

But I am ashamed of myself for that remark.
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Penrose Pollard Pascoe Stoddern Bowers Bennetts Stephens Milnes Lagur/Lagor Maddern Starkey Laity Chappell
liverpool lass
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 27 March 07 18:45 BST (UK) »
No worries Chris, we all have to learn to adjust our vision when we start researching! I remember being astonished by how many illegitimate births I came across in the 1800's. I used to think that had really only happened since the 1960's. Dumb eh!
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Lewis/Morgan - Carmarthenshire
Jones - Denbighshire
McCormack/McLoughlin - Liverpool
McKenzie - Liverpool/Lanarkshire/ Aus/USA/NZ
Evans - Merionethshire
Turnell - Northamptonshire
Jones - Glamorgan
Wood - Nova Scotia, Mass, USA
Booth - Aus
Francis - Carmarthen
Griffiths - Glamorgan and Llanelli
Morgan - Llanelly, Pontardulais
Williams - Llanelly
Chris Penrose
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 27 March 07 19:35 BST (UK) »
About two years ago I was researching a British-born lady's paternal family, and ended in Cowling in Yorkshire from where we currently have a brickwall. Never mind.

I was looking in Keighley Library at the BT's and Parish Registers, and from these came to the unmistakeable conclusion that a brother and sister, or at least first cousins, had married and borne a child.

This did not shock me or the young lady, as the visitations of one Archbishop Of York while travelling through this area showed excommunications for adultery and incest. In addition the families in Cornwall where I come from were pretty close. Today, a lot of people in Cornwall can find themselves to be distantly related in some way.

Visitations of Archbishops often make good reading! And you can sometimes pick things up about your own family history.
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Penrose Pollard Pascoe Stoddern Bowers Bennetts Stephens Milnes Lagur/Lagor Maddern Starkey Laity Chappell
RonnieG
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Re: help with my little mystery.please
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 28 March 07 08:46 BST (UK) »
Chris et al,

We all, without exception have "history" in our families and I freely admit to having my eyebrows raised by some of the facts I have uncovered, but the overall impression I am left with, is of how exceptionally strong these people were and (by and large) how supportive their extended families were.

Thank God they were - my life depended on them.

RonnieG
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Dyer - Paignton Devon
Rhodes - Wistow, Yorkshire
Moorman- Isle of Wight
Oliver - Surrey
White & Delaney - Dublin
Acres & Jackson- Tipperary & Offaly
Dowling & Mullane - Limerick
Ryan - Kildare
Heron - Down
Woods - Tipperary
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