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Author Topic: "Clerical Error" sex-change.  (Read 292 times)
Romilly
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"Clerical Error" sex-change.
« on: Thursday 10 November 05 16:49 GMT (UK) »

Hi there.

I got a shock today, when I recieved a copy of my late Uncle Ernest's birth certificate...

He was initially registered, in August 1897, as "Alice"!!

This was ammended by the Registrar in November 1897, who added "Ernest" in Column 10, & noted that a "Clerical Error in Column 3" was corrected in the presence of WJ. Wilson, (my Grandfather).

I'm intrigued by this "Clerical Error" sex change Smiley ("Girl" has been crossed out, and replaced by "boy" in Column 3). Did the Registrar really make a mistake, - or was it my Grandfather?

And worst of all...poor Uncle Ernest/Alice...just imagine joining the Merchant Navy & having to produce that Birth Cert!!!

Romilly.
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Wilson Brunton Rees Davies Holman Warren Dyer Newman Hamilton Young
Su
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 10 November 05 18:01 GMT (UK) »

 Shocked Shocked Shocked Romily.  Perhaps your Grandfather had been 'wetting' the baby's head with too much of the hard stuff  Grin

Ernest wasn't a twin was he?

Su
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Romilly
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 10 November 05 18:12 GMT (UK) »

Hi Su,

No, - Uncle Ernest definately wasn't a twin, LOL. (Perhaps the lighting was rather dim when he was born? Or possibly the midwife had left her glasses at home?).

My mother only met him once...& she says he was DEFINATELY a man Grin Grin

What is rather strange is that my daughter Alice has the same birthday as him, - but she is DEFINATELY a GIRL!!!

Cheers, Romilly.
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Wilson Brunton Rees Davies Holman Warren Dyer Newman Hamilton Young
indiapaleale
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 10 November 05 18:23 GMT (UK) »

I had to laugh at your story!

It reminded me of the birth certificate mix-up in my own family.

My Dad had two brothers...both named Arnold Eric!

It seems that Grandad went to register the new baby boy and on his way he stopped by the local for a few sherberts! When he got to the Register Office he was well puddled and forgot what he was supposed to name the baby. All he could think of was the name of the other toddler at home....hence Arnold Eric!

It's a good thing that the second Arnold Eric wasn't a girl!

India
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janan
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 November 05 18:28 GMT (UK) »

Hi
There are apparently conditions where the gender of a child is ambiguous at birth - maybe poor old Ernest/Alice suffered from such a condition Huh
Jan Wink
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bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge
Romilly
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 10 November 05 18:36 GMT (UK) »

Hi
There are apparently conditions where the gender of a child is ambiguous at birth - maybe poor old Ernest/Alice suffered from such a condition Huh
Jan Wink

Hi Jan,

Yes...I have read about this, its a condition called "trans-gender", I think.

I never met Uncle Ernest, (he died in 1957), but he never married...& (according to my mother) was very STRANGE.

If this was the case...(& his gender was somewhat ambiguous)...I feel terribly sad for him Sad

All the best, Romilly.
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Wilson Brunton Rees Davies Holman Warren Dyer Newman Hamilton Young
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #6 on: Friday 11 November 05 17:44 GMT (UK) »

I think Hermaphrodite is the medical word.......


Jan
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Romilly
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #7 on: Friday 11 November 05 18:08 GMT (UK) »

I think Hermaphrodite is the medical word.......

Jan

Hi Jan,

Since recieving my Uncle's birth cert...I've done some research along these lines, & gather that true hermaphrodism is extremely rare. Most "mistakes" as to assigning gender at birth are less extreme...

The fact that Ernest/Alice was able to join the Merchant Navy & serve during WW1 would surely show that he was able to pass the requisite medicals required of Seamen at that time?

I'm attaching a pic of my Grandmother, with Ernest/Alice on her lap as a baby. (All 3 children are boys, but they all seem to be wearing dresses). Smiley

Best Wishes, Romilly



* Swansea1898.jpg (39.83 KB, 300x426 - viewed 71 times.)
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Wilson Brunton Rees Davies Holman Warren Dyer Newman Hamilton Young
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #8 on: Friday 11 November 05 18:17 GMT (UK) »

It's not surprising to have a child of that age in a dress, I have a very similar picture of my uncle William at about the same age in a dress, and he went on to sire 11 children.
Back to the wrong registry of births because of "too much drink" my father has two birth certs, and for two different days no less, my grandfather registered him for one day and my great grandmother for another, to this day he doesn't know which is right.
Sharon
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janan
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #9 on: Friday 11 November 05 18:18 GMT (UK) »

What a lovely picture Cheesy
Re dresses for young boys I understand it was very common until they reached about 5.
Jan  Wink (the other one)
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge
Romilly
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R.H.D. 1884


Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #10 on: Friday 11 November 05 18:24 GMT (UK) »

What a lovely picture Cheesy
Re dresses for young boys I understand it was very common until they reached about 5.
Jan  Wink (the other one)

Hi Jan,

My comment re: "dresses for boys"... was somewhat tongue in cheek... Grin

Thanks for all the helpful replies Wink

That birth cert came as a bit of a shock!!

Best Wishes, Romilly.



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Wilson Brunton Rees Davies Holman Warren Dyer Newman Hamilton Young
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #11 on: Friday 11 November 05 18:31 GMT (UK) »

Here's my uncle in his


* walters.JPG (29.19 KB, 365x489 - viewed 64 times.)
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1000xlch
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #12 on: Friday 11 November 05 19:46 GMT (UK) »

Hi all

Boys were commonly photographed in dresses in the late 1800's and probably up to age 5.

My birth cert problem was my dad had registered my mothers wrong maiden name which only came to light when I was 16 and he had to go and take an oath before a JP at there house and swear that he was the father of me!

John Rowley
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DUNN - Cambuslang, LKS
FORSYTH - Shotts, LKS
FRAME - Hamilton, LKS
HODGSON - Hamsterley, DUR
HUMPHREY - Easingwold, NRY
HUNT - Frimley, Surrey
MCKECHNIE - Argyll - Shotts
NETHERCLIFF(T)/ DRAYCOTT Sandhurst, BKS
PEPPERCORN - Lolworth, Cambs
PRATT - Thirsk, NYK
REDSHAW - Hamsterley, DUR
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Keith Sherwood
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Re: "Clerical Error" sex-change.
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 12 November 05 07:50 GMT (UK) »

For ages I couldn't work out why I was unable to find my great-aunt Enid in the 1901 Census on line.  I always put in the gender option - but it was only when I accidentally put her in as "male" that I found her.  Not sure whether it was what she was wearing, or that the forename Enid was not a common girl's name then - probably just another clerical error...
Keith
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