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Topic: Need a miracle i think?? LOL (Read 677 times)
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Born~N~Bred
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 14
Mum & Grandad Ashton
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Hi @ all, i just wandered into the site and i`m praying someone can give me a little push in the right direction. I`m a total novice at this family history so be gentle with me LOL ... Ok dilemma = I am trying to solve a mystery that no one in the family seem`s to know about. My great grandad was born 1901 and i did get that much confirmed from the birth index, Hmmm?? and then my grandmother mentioned there had been some confusion as to which children belonged to which family after a family tragedy occured.... The problem i have is discovering who my grandfather`s real father was? Both families resided in the same street at the same time from what i can see on the earlier census, then one family disappear`s LOL how can i find out which family my grandfather belonged to??? Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated as i am rapidly running out of idea`s.. especially now that the parent`s don`t appear on the birth certificate???
If anyone can help my grandfather was John William Hook,
born september 1901,
and from what i`m lead to believe resided at an address in Water Street (once Swan Street) in Atherton, Lancashire.
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Ashton, Arkwright, Hook, Mather, Yates, Heaton, Brides, Farrimond, Rigby, Gorse, Warren, Woods Warren, Bachegalup, Croston, Clynes, Wilson, Bacigalupo
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Born~N~Bred
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 14
Mum & Grandad Ashton
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Hi Nicky, Hmmm! somehow i don`t think it would help much?? .. You see both families had the same surname as my g/g grandfather seem`s to of arrived in town at the same time as.. (what i`m presuming is his brother? due to my grandmother speaking of her cousin`s) .. we do have the orginal b/certificate but no parent`s listed? ... Both brother`s seem to of arrived in town for the mining work, on the census it state`s that they came from the gloustershire area, a place named marshfield? i think?? ... My great grandfather also became a miner and was tragically killed himself in 1954 while working. I tried to contact the coal mine association`s i have found on my travel`s around the net, in the hope that perhap`s they held detail`s that may of been useful... but they don`t seem to have any detail`s other than a list of name`s?. *totally baffled*
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Ashton, Arkwright, Hook, Mather, Yates, Heaton, Brides, Farrimond, Rigby, Gorse, Warren, Woods Warren, Bachegalup, Croston, Clynes, Wilson, Bacigalupo
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Sasha
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 534
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Hi,
Just a thought - do you have the 'short' version of the birth certificate or the 'full' version?
A short version will only give the child's name, to get the parents names you need the full version.
Sasha. 
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2468
Lilian Palmer 1923 to 1987
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Newspaper? You seem to know a bit about the "family tragedy". Did it make the papers or could there be obituries? Just an idea.
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
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peterbennett
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3107
Samuel if ever an Ag Lab looked like one it was he
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Hi
I have had a look at the relevant census pages for your Hook family and may have the answer for you. It seems that your original family headed by Isaac moved from The Forest of Dean Gloucester to Atherton Lancashire between 1876 and 1881, another family headed by a William Hook from Marshfield who arrived at about the same time only ever appeered on the 1881 census.
By 1891 there were 3 families of Hooks in Atherton, 1 headed by the father Isaac, the other 2 by the sons Thomas and John. Both Thomas and John had amongst others, children named John both born around 1889, BOTH Johns are alive in 1901 so it would not seem logical for either of them to name another child John. The only other married sons at the 1901 census were Isaac and Fred, of these only
Isaac lived on Water Street. So it would seem logical that if your John William Hook was born and lived in Water street that
Isaac was the father.The birth certificate should have the name on it of the person registering the birth of the child this need not be the mother or father.
If you would like me to post the census details please ask
I have posted the census details below and ammended my mistake
regards
peterbennett
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« Last Edit: Thursday 02 September 04 10:57 BST (UK) by peterbennett »
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Born~N~Bred
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 14
Mum & Grandad Ashton
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Hi and a HUGE thankyou to all of you for your help and suggestion`s, i`m ever grateful to all of you, this confusion was driving me nuts.
At the moment the orginal birth certificate for John William is not in my posession but i`m hoping to have it back from a colliery research association soon, they requested it from my grandmother who instead of photocopying, sent the original document. 
Peter thankyou so much for taking the time to look this up for me, this is the first time i`ve tried to research my family history and was hitting desperation with these families. Being a novice i was probably the cause of this by assuming that i was dealing with two brother`s when they arrived together doh!! ... I think i`ve been focused on the William of Marshfield and so will now try a different approach.
I did pay to see the 1901 census though a week or two ago, i wonder if you would be so kind as to check one more thing for me please?
When i went viewing the 1901 census i too got Fred married and head of household, however the address i got was different to your`s? I wondered if you could confirm that i am on the right track and with the correct family this time. The Fred Hook i got was married to Mary Ann, however the address i have for that family is an house on Cannon Street?? ... The Hook i found in Water Street was an Isaac Hook in a house with his inlaw`s who i was assuming was probably the Issac Hook who joined the Hook household on Swan Street in the 1891 census?? the household is-
John Wilson 52 Head
Jane Wilson 51 Wife
William Wilson 22 Son
Betsy E Hook 25 Daughter
Isaac Hook 25 Son in law
Eliza Hook 7 G/daughter
Emily Hook 5 G/daughter
Isaac Hook 3 G/son
Andrew Hook 1 G/son
I would imagine this family to be more probable as the parent`s as we do have the Wilson`s in our family somewhere. Could you check that this family is actually on Water Street for me?? .. Could it be i`m reading the census incorrectly or is it just the town of Atherton that`s moving there street`s about to make this difficult?? *LOL*
Thank`s again to everyone for the help and idea`s you`ve provided, this family history is sooooooooooooo addictive and happy hunting to you all.
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Ashton, Arkwright, Hook, Mather, Yates, Heaton, Brides, Farrimond, Rigby, Gorse, Warren, Woods Warren, Bachegalup, Croston, Clynes, Wilson, Bacigalupo
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peterbennett
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3107
Samuel if ever an Ag Lab looked like one it was he
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Hi
Here are the details from the census.
1881 census
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Isaac HOOK Head M Male 48 Gloucester, England Coal Miner
Charlotte HOOK Wife M Female 47 Gloucester, England
John HOOK Son U Male 18 Gloucester, England Coal Miner
Thomas HOOK Son U Male 15 Gloucester, England Coal Miner
Fred HOOK Son U Male 13 Gloucester, England Scholar
Henry HOOK Son Male 10 Gloucester, England Scholar
Elizabeth HOOK Dau Female 6 Gloucester, England Scholar
Source Information:
Dwelling 2 Swan Street
Census Place Atherton, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341911
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3809 / 59
Page Number 37
1891 census
Name Age in 1891 Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County
Hook, Isaac 54 Gloucestershire Head Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Charlotte 55 Gloucestershire Wife Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Isaac 18 Gloucestershire Son Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Elizabeth 16 Gloucestershire Daughter Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Frederick 21 Gloucestershire Son Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Harry 5 Gloucestershire Grandson Atherton Lancashire
10 Swann Street
Source information: RG12/3090
Registration district: Leigh
Sub registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Folio: 72
Page: 50
1891 census
Hook, Thomas 25 Forest of dean, Gloucestershire Head Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Betsy 25 Tyldesley, Lancashire Wife Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Sarah 6 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Charlotte 5 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter Atherton Lancashire
Hook, John 2 Atherton, Lancashire Son Atherton Lancashire
Clynes, Edward 19 Tyldesley, Lancashire Boarder Atherton Lancashire
16 Swann Street
Source information: RG12/3090
Registration district: Leigh
Sub registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Folio: 72
Page: 50
1891 census
Name Age in 1891 Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County
Lancashire
Hook, John 26 Forest dean, Gloucestershire Head Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Mary 28 Dudley, Staffordshire Wife Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Martha 5 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter Atherton Lancashire
Hook, John 3 Atherton, Lancashire Son Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Phoebe 1 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter Atherton Lancashire
Hook, Isaac 3 Day Atherton, Lancashire Son Atherton
12 Sanderson Street
Source information: RG12/3090
Registration district: Leigh
Sub registration district: Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Folio: 137
Page: 39
contiued below
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peterbennett
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3107
Samuel if ever an Ag Lab looked like one it was he
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Deaths 1897
Name: Hook, Isaac
Record Type: Deaths
Age at death: 64
Quarter: March
Year: 1897
District: Leigh
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 196
Death 1900
Name: Hook, Charlotte
Record Type: Deaths
Age at death: 64
Quarter: June
Year: 1900
District: Leigh
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 181
1901 census
RG 13 3596 F88 - P47
5 Harrison Street Atherton
John Hook head marr 38 coal miner Forest of Dean Shropshire
Mary ~ wife ~ 36 ~ ~ Gloucester
Martha ~ daug u/w 16 tracer at belt works Atherton Lancs
John ~ son 12 card room hand ~ ~
Phoebe ~ daug 10 ~ ~
Ellen ~ ~ 5 ~ ~
Elizabeth ~ 1 ~ ~
RG 13 3595- F162 P34
20 Swann Street Atherton Lancs
Thomas Hook head marr 36 miner Forest of Dean Gloucester
Betsey ~ wife ~ 36 Lancs
Sarah 16 Atherton Lancs
Charlotte 14 ~ ~
John 12 ~ ~
Elizabeth 10 ~ ~
Thomas 7 ~ ~
William 5 ~ ~
Charles 4 ~ ~
RG 13 3595- F154-P18
18 Cannon Street Atherton Lancs
Fred Hook head marr 30 miner Gloucestershire
Mary Ann wife ~ 26 Salford Lancs
Frederick son 5 Atherton Lancs
Elizabeth daug 1 ~ ~
RG 13 3595-F158-P25
51 Water Street Atherton Lancs
John Wilson head 52 brickmaker Shrewsbury
Jane ~ wife 51 Worsley Lancs
William son 22 collier Little ?? Lancs
Betsy E Hook daug 25 Farnworth Lancs
Isaac ~ s/in/l 27 ~ Forest of Dean Gloucester
Eliza ~ g/daug 7 Atherton
Emerly ~ ~ 5 ~
Isaac g/son 3 ~
Andrew ~ 1
regards
peterbennett
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sjsbc
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 855
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Hi,
Not sure I fully followed which Hook family you were interested in, but in case this helps, these are the three Hook families living in Marshfield on the 1851 census.
MARSHFIELD 1851 CENSUS, Gloucestershire
P.R.O. Reference # HO 107/1956
SECTION III
All that Part of the Parish of Marshfield Bounded on the West by Main Street, on the South by
the Road to Colerne and on the East by the Boundries et etc
Pages 30
Persons 296 Male 286 Female 576 Total
Enumerator Thomas Huff
HOOK Samuel 30 ? Ag Lab Marshfield
Mary Ann 34 Marshfield
Clara 9 Scholar Marshfield
Louisa 5 Scholar Marshfield
Eliza 2 Marshfield
HOOK William 23 Ag Lab Marshfield
Sarah Ann 20 Marshfield
James 2 Marshfield
Isaac 2m Marshfield
HOOK Charles 54 Ag Lab West Littleton
Hannah 52 Marshfield
Isaac 11 Ag Lab Marshfield
Sue
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SCOTLAND: Scotland, Morrison, Bonnella, Third,
LINCOLNSHIRE: Bell, King, Emerson, Leesing, Canty, Cutting, Fox,
GLOUCESTERSHIRE: Antill, Onslow, Crook, Jenkins,
LANCASHIRE: Hall, Mayson, Dearden,
WILTSHIRE: Sloper, King, Willis, Stockwell,
ESSEX: Stone, Webb, Smith, Hawkins, Frye,
SOMERSET: Harrison, Jones,
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