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Topic: Burial - Ware Congregational (Read 1965 times)
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2213
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Hi Ann12,
I have just found your message re Dead Lane Burials. I don't know if I can be of much help but a relation of mine visited Ware recently (from Oz) to look for exactly what you have asked. I have an ancestor who died 1822 and was possibly buried in "Dead Lane cemetery". I was told that the burial ground that once was part of the church now forms part of the front yard of a private house. The headstones (in many cases) are still standing. Unfortunately my "Male" relative didn't want to ask the householder if he could look around so I am none the wiser as to who is buried there - FRUSTRATING!!!!
It would be a tremendous bonus if someone could go and document all the headstones (I don't think there are hundreds) and save a lot of people searching all the other cemeteries (and save intruding on the occupants of the private home more than necessary)
If you are able to find anything re this site, I would appreciate any information as I have been searching for a LOOOOOOONG time for my ancestors grave site.
Happy Hunting
Regards
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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linmey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1472
My Grandfather George Burns. Seaforth Highlanders!
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Hi Lady Di,
I did offer to have a look at the church for Anna so if I can help in any way please let me know as I live nearby. I drove up Dead Lane, now Church Street, on sunday but I couldnt see the church from the road. My Mum knows where it is however and she is going to walk round and have a look. She wont worry about going in someones garden. She will just plead insanity.
Best wishes. Linda.
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Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire. Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts. Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants. Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight. Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire. Garvey- Ireland. Census Information Is Crown Copyright From-- www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lady Di
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Posts: 2213
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Hi Linda,
Thanks for the reply.
I was so frustrated when I was told that the guys wouldn't go into someone's fron yard and even ask permission to look around - typical male!! 
( I hope I have their story right??)
I have two ancestors who MAY be buried there - Benjamin Medcalf (died 1822) and his wife Mary Medcalf (died assumed 1817-1822 - last child born 1817, husband's Will in 1822 doesn't mention her and he nominated guardians for the children).
I have checked the IGI and they have no records for burials in Dead Lane (Thank goodness they changed the name to Church Street!)
I have a recent photo of the church and it appears to be down a side alley. Apparently it is no longer in use - or so I have been informed.
Anything you (or your mother) could find for me would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Diana
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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linmey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1472
My Grandfather George Burns. Seaforth Highlanders!
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Hello Diana,
Hope you are well. When I looked into this for Anna we came to the conclusion that there is a church in use on the site of the church that her family would have used. There is more on this subject earlier in this thread. That is of course if we are talking about the same chapel in Dead Lane that Anna was talking about. You didnt mention in your post if it was the same chapel because one thing I noticed the other day when driving down there was that there were several other chapels in that road, some still in use and some converted into houses. By the sound of your description it may be one of these because you say its no longer in use.
Look forward to hearing from you. Regards Linda.
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Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire. Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts. Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants. Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight. Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire. Garvey- Ireland. Census Information Is Crown Copyright From-- www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lady Di
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Posts: 2213
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Hi Linda,
The Chapel that I (believe) I am referring to was called :
Independant Chapel - Old Meeting Dead Lane, Ware
This was classified as the Congrational church - or am I totally confused? 
Someone sent me a photo and I have rechecked and the windows appear to be boarded up.
I will try and attach a copy of the photo but it will be a copy of a copy or a copy - it may not be the best copy ever done.
I hope we are talking about the same place.
Regards
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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behindthefrogs
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Posts: 3316
EDLIN
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There are a number of unanswered issues still in this thread.
1) Burial in the parish churchyard was the right of anyone belonging to the parish, and still is if there is no local public cemetery.
2) All baptisms at this time had to be included in the parish register (so that the government could have the fee to pay for the war in France. Where have we heard that one?). This doesn't seem to have applied to burials. This also established residence in the parish which had a lot of legal implications
3) There would be no case for people from other churches being buried in unconsecrated land. This was reserved for suicides and a few similar cases.
4) However independent churches did have their own graveyards, usually in those days in the churchyard. Other than possibly for paupers which the parish had to bury for free there was no compulsion to use the parish churchyard.
In some places these churches got together and bought and consecrated a common non-conformist graveyard. Usually the local Methodists joined in this purchase.
5) Independent chapels were self governing and still are.
Some of them decided to join the Congregational or the Baptist Union. These were totally democratic and while they handled items of common interest such as training new ministers the choice was always back with the individual church and its membership. An example of this is when the Congregational Union decided to merge with the Presbyterians in the 1970s, individual churches decided not to become part of the new United Reform Church
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2213
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Hi David,
Thank you for all that information.
I am still unsure if we are all talking about the same church.
It would be great to find my ancestors grave site but I am use to looking in many places, so maybe my search continues.
Much appreciated
Regards
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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behindthefrogs
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3316
EDLIN
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A number of hopefully helpful points this time
1) Burials in non-conformist churchyards were allowed by "The Toleration Act of 1689"
2) From 1813 all burials had to be recorded in a register, the NBI was probably transcribed from that by the local family history society. They may also have done a survey of any MIs particularly if the graveyard has been destroyed.
3) If you contact the Leaside Church they should rapidly be able get rid of any doubts you may have about which was the Congregational Church and what happened to any graveyard
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2213
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Hi David,
It is great to know that a burial after 1813 will be recorded in a register "somewhere".
I tried emailing the Leaside Church some time ago but their email address was incorrect on Wareonline web site.
I will re check and try again.
Many thanks for all the information and guidance
Regards
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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linmey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1472
My Grandfather George Burns. Seaforth Highlanders!
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Hi David and Diana,
If you look earlier in this thread Keith suggested a site which has a picture of the church you mention as it is today(Leaside). It looks like the one in the photo you posted Diana so hopefully its the right one. As I mentioned in a previous post its always possible thr burial was in St Marys churchyard which is nearby. I dont know if anna got any further in tracing where her family were buried.
Best wishes.
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Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire. Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts. Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants. Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight. Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire. Garvey- Ireland. Census Information Is Crown Copyright From-- www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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linmey
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1472
My Grandfather George Burns. Seaforth Highlanders!
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Bit early for daffs Ann, but you never know. Its getting to be a popular church with RootsChatters. You are right, it is now called Church Street.
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Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire. Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts. Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants. Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight. Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire. Garvey- Ireland. Census Information Is Crown Copyright From-- www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2213
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As previously recommended, I attempted to contact the Leaside Church by email. I have received no reply - not even an acknowledgment - so that wasn't a lot of help.
I have also just spent a week or two going through the St Mary's Parish Register for BMD's. My ancestor's deaths are not recorded at St Mary's.
Anna - I'm sorry to say that I didn't see any Josolynes either.
So it's back to a church, probably in Ware somewhere (or someone's front yard) or with Anna's ancestors in the daff patch - who knows
Looks like we may never solve this one.
By the way, linmey, has your mother wandered around any strange front yards recently? Maybe to check some headstones??
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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linmey
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1472
My Grandfather George Burns. Seaforth Highlanders!
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Hi Di,
We have been waiting for the nod if you see what I mean. More than happy to have a look for you if you can give us all the details. My Mum has been dragging me round various churchyards from a young age so we are very experienced.
best wishes, Linda.
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Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire. Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts. Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants. Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight. Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire. Garvey- Ireland. Census Information Is Crown Copyright From-- www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2213
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Hi Linda,
Thank you for offering to go "grave hunting" for me.
My guy is Benjamin MEDCALF, died 29 May 1821. He wrote his will on 12 May 1821 saying he was "of Ware" so I can only assume that he died there (17 days later).
His wife, Mary Medcalf, may be buried close by - died 1817-1821 - sorry, no specific date there.
I know that other family members are buried in a large cemetery somewhere in Ware. My relatives who visited there sent me a photo of the gateway (rather helpful, I thought!!!)
As Benjamin and Mary's deaths were early 1800's and I understand that the main cemetery didn't open until the mid 1800's, they must be buried in a church burial ground somewhere (my guess only!)
Anything that you can find would be a tremendous bonus and I thank you for offering your time.
Happy Hunting
Regards
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Independant_Chapel_Dead_Lane_Ware.JPG
