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Topic: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe (Read 9755 times)
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Berlin-Bob
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by My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Just helped somebody out with this and thought it would be useful to others:
What were they called:
Many people emigrating to a new country have changed their names
- to avoid political repurcussions,
- to "disappear" from view, as far as the "Old Country" was concerned
- "new country, new start in life", trying to fit in
- the old name was hard to understand, so the name was anglicised, either voluntarily, or, in some cases, arbitrarily by immigration officials
Whatever the reasons, it makes life difficult for us, unless we know both the "before & after" names.
Here a some of the simpler name changes:
1) straight translation. the name looks similar and has the same meaning
e.g. Braun => Brown, Schmidt => Smith, Grun or Grün => Green, Müller => Miller, -feld => -field, etc
2) losing the umlaut vowels (pronounced: um-lout)
the official, alternative spellings for ä,ö, ü, ß are ae, oe, ue, ss. But on emigrating, many just dropped the umlaut => a, o, u,
e.g. Gröbener => Groebener or => Grobener
But: ä can be pronounced 'ay' as in Hay or 'e' as in hedge, so Bäcker might become Becker (soundex) or Baker (translation) or Backer (lose the umlaut)
Any other suggestions ??
p.s.
The exception confirms the rule:
Looking through the Susser Archive: http://www.eclipse.co.uk/exeshul/susser/dentists.htm I found this sentence, which I just have to share with you:
".. Abraham ben Isaiah, otherwise known as Moses Abraham Groomsfelt, or Jones,
a silversmith .."
I found the idea of changing his name to JONES amusing.
I could understand GROOMFIELD or something similar, but JONES !!
--- the mind boggles. There has to be a story there !
Edited: 02.04.2005
cell has just posted a "searching for " story on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,47221.0.html
Her ancestor changed his name from Karlson to Carlson !!!!
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« Last Edit: Monday 11 April 05 14:38 BST (UK) by Berlin-Bob »
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Berlin-Bob
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German BMD Records:
As I said before -- "Sharing Useful Links: Germany ..." -- not a lot of "hard" data on german web-sites !
There are two reasons for this:
1) Germany arose out of the prussian state, and the prussian bureaucrat mentality dies hard !
Data is collected 'en masse', (for instance, there is obligatory registration of domicile, within 14 days of moving, for everybody), but only 'authorized' persons are allowed to see it.
2) Reading a book on german Ancestor Research, I came across this passage. The gist of it (my very free translation) is:
"During the National Socialist period it was obligatory for every family to have an Ancestry Book ('Sippenbuch'). This book was a genealogical record of the family, going as far back as possible. Loyal party members were even allowed access to otherwise unavailable records, to help them fill out this book."
Sounds like Genealogist's Heaven, doesn't it ! ... until you read on ....:
"These books were used by the (Nazi-) Party to establish that you were a 'true' aryan. Any non-aryan blood could be more easily spotted and the whole family marked as 'suspect', discriminated against, etc. The Nazis had an 'Office for Genealogical Research' with plans for a later 'Ministry of G.R.', which would have had wide reaching powers to act upon 'unfavourable' data, and not just collect it !"
I think we all know what THAT means ! Given the above, it is not surprising that for many, many decades after the war, the whole idea of genealogical research was tainted !
The only BMD records I know of are on the German BDM exchange:
Otherwise, if you are lucky enough to have ancestors from these particular places,
there are Ortsfamilienbücher (Local Heritage Books) which give personal info.
Check out your luck here: http://db.genealogy.net/ofb/map.cgi?land=deutschland
The only other sources are private, family web-pages, which sometimes grow to include whole areas. try Googling.
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« Last Edit: Friday 05 November 04 14:17 GMT (UK) by Berlin-Bob »
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Berlin-Bob
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German Census Records:
In general, there are none !
There may be bits and pieces of local census here and there, but the official census is
a) only statistical, no names, no pack drill !
b) irregular. The last one I know of was in 1987. Although the government constantly emphasized that only statistical data was being collected, that all forms would be anonymous, etc, etc, many people protested, even threatening to burn the census forms !
After this census, the gov. decided to do a mini-census - 10% of the population - and extrapolate statistical findings. Since then Census has never been mentioned here !
As it was suggested in the 1987 census debate that the data being collected was already available in different government databases, I strongly suspect that any statistical analysis is now being done quietly, by linking databases !
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« Last Edit: Friday 05 November 04 14:19 GMT (UK) by Berlin-Bob »
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Berlin-Bob
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by My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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German Parish Registers:
Another source of information is the Kirchenbuch, pl. Kirchenbücher - the parish register(s).
The best way to find these is to Google with "parish register placename" and hope for the best.
Another possibility is to Google with "kirchenbuch placename" or "kirchenbücher placename": this will give you a different set of results, mixed german and english. Still worth doing, in case you recognise any other names in the search results.
Some of the web-sites mentioned in " .. links..", mainly the former german territories, seem to have put a lot of Kirchenbücher on-line, other places, they are available for look-ups, if you go to the local archives.
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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sandiep
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Posts: 718
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Hi Bob,
lots of good tips and help trouble is my german is non existant had alook at the one for local heritage books but ................I suppose if you dont have a clue to places which I havent only Germany doesnt get me far still keep trying the sites and will try some german surfing maybe those elusive Raphaels will turn up.
 
sandie
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Pender, Raphael,Lambert,Digby,Stent, Dowell,cornish,mulley,Death,Rosier, East End,Suffolk,Essex,Cornwall,Devon,London, middlesex, hertfordshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Berlin-Bob
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"... all we know is that s/he was born in / came from Germany / Poland / Russia / France / ... etc."
This happens often:
A relative came from from Germany, (or Poland, or France, or Wherever .....) and there are no other details!
This is my "clutching at straws" tip ...
AKA "It's raining and I have nothing else to do .."
AKA "It's a very long shot, but I can't think af anything else ..."
There is a german site: http://gedbas.genealogy.net/index.jsp where german researchers upload their family trees.
Try entering your name(s) here and go through the results. Sometimes a name will jog memories
Another site (international) is: http://www.geneanet.org/
Enter your name(s) and if lucky, you get a list of names back, with contributors. Click on the contributor and this usually takes you to their web-site, or a site such as GenCircles or FamilyTreeMaker, where they have uploaded their GEDCOMS.
Search through these pages. If you are lucky, you may find names, place names or other details that will jog your memory, and help to take you forward.
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 27 April 05 07:40 BST (UK) by Berlin-Bob »
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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itwoznotme
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Hello bob and all,
Very interesting facts on discovering your German Ancestors, greatly appreciated.
After discovering my surname had changed slightly from Schmalkalder to present day Smallcalder I was very fortunate to have records forwarded to me from dates circa 1460 of Schmalkalder Families in Stuttgart, this was I suppose lucky just sending right emails off to people of interest, these points always helped
Have German Translation with Email
Be polite
Send to right area
This web site was of great importance to me
http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/VFWKWB/index.html
Still would love to find out were the surname Schmalkalder derived from,
Having a town called Schmalkalden close to where most of them were born, I would say the surname is of there, but were they given it or just took it von or of Schmalkalder and the von was dropped later
very best
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Smallcalder, Schmalcalder, Selby, Davies, Reynolds, Clark, Corgan
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Sorcha
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Posts: 21
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Stupid question, probably, however:
Can German surnames be regionalised, like, are certain surnmes common to a particular area of Germany. I'm looking for Fidell Beurle (anglicised to Bailey on the 1861 census) but the census only gives birthplace as Germany, approximately 1811.
Also, I had Fidell (or Fidel) down as a Spanish name. Has anyone researching in Germany come across this first name often or is it a hint at more Mediterranean origins (as the family 'rumour' goes)?
Any help appreciated!!
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Barrington - Liverpool/London - Ireland
Fyfe, Lindsay - Scotland
Gray, Parry, Jones - Caernarfonshire, Wales
Plimmer, Davis, Stone, Keeling, Sheldon, Holmes - Derbyshire
Nelson, Hilton, Cowley, Rimmer, Birch, Kershaw, Cryer, Brookfield, Howard, Abram, Latham - Lancashire
Kinsey, Booth - Cheshire
Birch and travellers - Staffordshire
Taylor, Warr - Oxfordshire
Beurle, Bailey - Kent
...up to now!
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Janealogy
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Posts: 68
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Hi Sorcha,
I ran across a similar situation with a surname sounding either Spanish or Italian, Spanier, Christiani and Martini. These families German Spanier from Galizien and Martini & Christiani from Transylvania. It could steer you in the wrong direction, and who knows may be past Centuries Wars, battles, invasions etc, you never know! One can only continue to read and search.
I'm sure there are not so common names that show up in a particular area of what was once part of the Austrian Empire. My branch went to Galizen, as they were in need of good farmers and people to build up this region, for free land. My surname is now found in this region, but it is a rare name.
Jane
PS There were also "Birl" family in the same region also spelt Bierl/Bürl, which I'm sure sounds the same as Beurle
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Pembrokeshire St.Dogmaels names "Davies", "Jones" William (s) and Rees, these families moved to Cardiff, Glamorgan.
Yorkshire, surname "Burniston"
Devon, Somerset and Cardiff Glamorgan surname "Wide"
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Sorcha
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Hi Jane,
Thanks for your response; I suppose due to upheavals in Europe anything is possible - people moved and people from different nationalities or origins may have moved to Germany.
I just wanted to ask, how did you find out about the origins of your 'German' ancestors? Did you have anything to go on? All I have is an 1861 census return and the marriage of Fidel Beurle's daughter. Did you have more information to inform your research? Also, did you use research naturalisation records? I'm wondering if it would be worth my paying someone to research these at Kew incase they give me more specific information. I'm thinking that Fidel Beurle must have been in the country a few years, as his daughter was born in Chatham in 1844 and married in 1863; he also married Bridget, (who became Bridget Bailey) who was from Middlesex. Maybe when he anglicized his name he became a naturalised citizen??
Questions! Questions! Your response has given me hope and encouraged my thinking in other directions though. Many thanks!
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Barrington - Liverpool/London - Ireland
Fyfe, Lindsay - Scotland
Gray, Parry, Jones - Caernarfonshire, Wales
Plimmer, Davis, Stone, Keeling, Sheldon, Holmes - Derbyshire
Nelson, Hilton, Cowley, Rimmer, Birch, Kershaw, Cryer, Brookfield, Howard, Abram, Latham - Lancashire
Kinsey, Booth - Cheshire
Birch and travellers - Staffordshire
Taylor, Warr - Oxfordshire
Beurle, Bailey - Kent
...up to now!
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Janealogy
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Posts: 68
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Hi Sorcha,
Please don't give up!! I have no knowledge of the German language, (so don't let that scare you!) or knew any of its history. I started my research for my husband who would have loved to have had the opportunity to have met his grandmother, but never did due to divorce and living the other side of the USA. When I started I was told her name was Catherine, and she was German, that was it!! Fortunately our surname is rare so I began by writing letter's to everyone who carried the same surname. Luck had it I received a letter from my husbands natural father's first cousin, who gave grandma's surname (spelt wrong, and later found her name was Katharina, plus her sister - two sister's married two brother's). I then searched the internet, posted I don't know how many message boards and read as much as possible. I have been fortunate as Grandma, lived in a very small village in Galizen, and someone who has now become a good friend of mine is the historian who lives in Germany. I made many, many mistakes along the way, but you learn from them. As my friend in Germany, can speak English, but cannot navigate the web in English, I took on a lot of research in English, especially the migration, for dis-placed Germans and also early 1900's migration. Logging everyone that came from this village with spelling's you would not believe. It also helped me to understand. I am not one of those people who can take in very heavy literature, just does not sink in. Doing this research on the internet, the same surnames kept popping up for this particular area. The other part that interested me was that certain families married into the same families. They're must have been status.
The petitions for naturalization in the USA are much more of a wealth of info, I'm sure they may have the same in the UK. My searches have only been in the US. All I can say is read the mistakes of others, and read the success stories.
The unfortunate part of it all is that after years possibly of research and you find the answer's, look over what you have, the answer's were staring at you all the time. That is frustrating. (eg: I was told Grandma came to Pennsylvania, I searched the port, only when I found her under a name you would not believe she came via the ship named Pennsylvania)
I also posted today for some excellent websites that I found in my research for German Genealogy.
I also want to point out that I have not spent a penny on my research on this particular family. I many years ago started my own family research and was sending checks to researchers like I just won lotto. I found experts in a particular field, who never really had the time to research, I did the leg work. I do have now Ancestry subscriptions, but chasing several families.
I am no expert at all, just a mum, kids at school and access to the internet, and nosy bascially as far as my family genealogy.
If I can help at all drop me a line
All the very best in your new history lesson (it is very interesting)
Jane
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Pembrokeshire St.Dogmaels names "Davies", "Jones" William (s) and Rees, these families moved to Cardiff, Glamorgan.
Yorkshire, surname "Burniston"
Devon, Somerset and Cardiff Glamorgan surname "Wide"
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Rena
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 578
Conscription - 1956
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On the census my ancestor gave his country of origin as "Hanover". This was a Kingdom ceded to King James of Scotland for the hand of his grandaughter Sophie in marriage. The borders changed during British rule until about 1900 when it became part of Germany.
The state are slowly putting names and the reference numbers of the emigration archives from Hannover,
Osnabrück, and Wolfenbüttel. The following explains something about using the archives:
Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done by going to the website:
http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't know German. On the first page:
Choose one of the three locations on the bar (look for the arrow to show the areas) & click "Abschicken"
Go to "Index" in the middle of the page and click
Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
Choose "Personen" where it says "nach Ort"
Click on "Suchen starten" and you will get a list of persons who emigrated from Niedersachsen with that name. Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on all 3 locations.
Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the town later. Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
Finding what area the person comes from is not easy. On the Hannover site, it usually names a town right in the code.
For Osnabrück it is harder, although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't presume anything about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first
clicked on Index and this time click on Gliederung.
There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from that area. The numbers start with 1 and go up from there. So if the number
is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go to the one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with the list of names. When you find the right one, the code will match the code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking for. I know this is confusing. Then, you can order the records from one of the 3 locations. The email addresses are:
Hannover - poststelle@staatsarchiv-h.niedersachsen.de
Osnabrück - poststelle@staatsarchiv-os.niedersachsen.de
Wolfenbüttel - poststelle@staatsarchiv-wf.niedersachsen.de
You have to realize that these emigration records cover only certain years--and not everybody is listed there. None of my relatives are. You're lucky if you find them!!
I would not order records until you know whether it is your ancestor. You can always write to the addresses given above and maybe they can help you.
Rena
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Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy
Leith area: Mason, Telford, Darling, Cruikshanks, Sime, Bell
Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie
Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell
Perthshire: Brown Ferguson
Wales: McCarthy, Thomas, Yeoman(s)
England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells
Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke
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