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Topic: A Brick wall - Stemp/Wickens/May - Chiddingly (Read 358 times)
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mnmilt
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 381
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Hi,
I have been working on a brick wall for a while. I have been stuck on my gg grandparents, James Stemp and Martha Wickens. Over the years they have done a very good job of hiding in the census. However, I was able to find them hiding under "Kemp" and "Steup." Here is what I know about them.
1871 Census:
William Stemp; Age 43; b Groombridge, Kent; Hawker
Martha Stemp; Age 30; b Cuckfield, Sussex
Thomas Stemp, Age 13, b Hailsham
Albert Stemp, Age 10, b Cuckfield
Mary A stemp, Age 7, b Chiddingly
Agnes Stemp, Age 5, b Bodiam
Frederick Stemp, Age 2, b Chiddingly
Horace Stemp, Age 9 months, b Chiddingly
1872: The parents of Ellen Stemp are listed as being James Stemp (Chairbottomer) and Martha Stemp (nee Wickens) on Ellen's birth certificate
1881 Census:
James Stemp; age 49; b Chiddingstone, Sussex; Labourer
Martha Stemp; Age 39; b Brighton
Albert Stemp; age 19; b Chiddingly
Frederick Stemp; age 12; b Chiddingly
Horace Stemp; age 10; b Chiddingly
Nelly Stemp; age 8; Chiddingly
James KNIGHT; age 6; b Chiddingly; (Boarder)
Edwin TURNER; Age 39; b Chiddingly; (Boarder)
1891:
Pratts; Upper Dicker, Hellingly, Sussex
James Stemp; Head; Age 58; b Chiddingly, Sussex; Agricultural Labourer;
Martha Stemp; Age 50; b Brighton, Sussex
Ellen Stemp; Age 19; b Chiddingly, Sussex
James Freeman; Visitor; Age 5; b Chiddingly, Sussex
Edwin Turner; Boarder; Age 49; b Chiddingly, Sussex
George Errey; Boarder; Age 20; b Heathfield, Sussex
James Knight; Boarder; Age 16; b Chiddingly, Sussex
1892:
When Ellen Stemp married Edward Foord, her father was listed as James Stemp, Labourer. The witnesses were Thomas Wickens and Ellen Wickens.
1901:
Old Pottery Farm, Upper Dicker, Hellingly, Sussex
James Stemp; Age 68; Farmer own account; b Kent
Martha Stemp; Age 60; b Sussex
Edwin Turner; Boarder; Age 60; b Sussex
William Barden; Boarder; Age 21; single; b Sussex
Charles Russell; Boarder; Age 15; b Sussex
The above was a bit confusing since in 1871 Martha's husband was William Stemp (b abt 1828 in Groombridge; Kent). Subsequently, her husband was James Stemp (b abt 1833). James's place of birth bounced around a bit.
I had been able to find the birth information for most of the children (Mary Ann, b 1864; Agnes; b 1866; Horace, b 1870 and Ellen b 1872).
Until today I had not been able to find any sign of James and Martha in the 1861 census until I stumbled across this entry:
Dicker, Chiddingly
James May; Age 25; Chairbottomer; b Rotherfield, Sussex
Martha Wickens May; Age 23; b Brighton
Albert May; Age 2 months; b Cuckfield
William Thomas May; Age 3; b Hellingly
This clearly seems to be the right family but it certainly raises a large number of questions including:
How did the Mays become the Stemps?
Who is William Stemp (husband in the 1871 census)?
How are Thomas Wickens and Ellen Wickens related to Ellen Stemp?
Does anybody have any ideas?
Regards
Mark Milton
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« Last Edit: Sunday 29 January 06 01:32 GMT (UK) by mnmilt »
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Milton - Brighton, Eastbourne Foord - Westham, Ringmer Sellens/Sellins/Sellings - Sedlescombe, Crowhurst Cash - Tonbridge, Kent Harding - Horsham Bodle - Hailsham, Alfriston Crowhurst - Hailsham, Westham Roods/Roads/Rhodes - Hailsham, Westham Sinnock - Hailsham Silsby - Brighton Thomas - Brighton Tullett - Brighton Verrall - Sussex Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mnmilt
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 381
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Andrea,
This is a thick wall but I have just found a couple of things that may help. The first is the following birth
William Thomas Wickens
Birth; Dec Q 1857; Hailsham District; 2b, 61
This seems to be the son listed as Thomas William in the 1861 census.
I'll have to order this cert (and the one that you pointed out) to find out for sure. It looks like the first two sons were born out of wedlock.
I think that I have also accidentally added a red herring (or two) in the original post. I dodn't realize that there is such a place as Chiddingstone, although it seems to now be in Kent. The second is the 1861 census listing. I have looked closely at the image and although it looks like the name is "May" I know don't think that is correct. If you have a look at the image (RG9/569/60/1) what looks like the "M" in "May" isn't an "M" based on the "M" in "Martha." The name could be many things. At a stretch you could see "Stemp" or "Stamp." I'd be interested to see what you think if you have access to the image.
Thanks for your help.
Regards
Mark
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Milton - Brighton, Eastbourne Foord - Westham, Ringmer Sellens/Sellins/Sellings - Sedlescombe, Crowhurst Cash - Tonbridge, Kent Harding - Horsham Bodle - Hailsham, Alfriston Crowhurst - Hailsham, Westham Roods/Roads/Rhodes - Hailsham, Westham Sinnock - Hailsham Silsby - Brighton Thomas - Brighton Tullett - Brighton Verrall - Sussex Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mnmilt
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 381
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Andrea,
I may well be clutching at straws with the writing - it may well be wishful thinking. I know that I want the name to be Stemp but since the James in the 1861 census has an occupation of Chairbottomer and the James Stemp listed as father of Ellen Stemp on her birth certificate is also a chairbottomer it seems to be a possibility.
The name has been mis-read (I can't use the "T" word) as Kemp and Steup so anything is possible. Along those lines I have just been looking at the BMD images on Ancestry and in Dec Q 1863 there is a marriage for Martha Wichem in Hailsham District. That entry is just above Clara Wickens (that's why I spotted it). I'll order that cert and see if it is the right one. I wouldn't be surprised if it is since Wichem doesn't seem to be a surname as far as I can tell.
Regards
Mark
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Milton - Brighton, Eastbourne Foord - Westham, Ringmer Sellens/Sellins/Sellings - Sedlescombe, Crowhurst Cash - Tonbridge, Kent Harding - Horsham Bodle - Hailsham, Alfriston Crowhurst - Hailsham, Westham Roods/Roads/Rhodes - Hailsham, Westham Sinnock - Hailsham Silsby - Brighton Thomas - Brighton Tullett - Brighton Verrall - Sussex Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mnmilt
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 381
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All,
Thanks for your help. I have now learned a little bit more from certs that I ordered and with some help from the Chiddingly OPC.
William Thomas was born to Martha Wickens in the Union workhouse in Hellingly on 9 Dec 1857.
Albert Wickens; son of Martha Wickens was christened in Chiddingly on 13 Oct 1861. No father was listed.
Mary Anne Stemp; daughter of James Stemp, Labourer, and Martha Stemp was christened on 21 Feb 1864 in Chiddingly.
I did find the marriage of Martha Wickens and James Stemp (as I suspected the listing for Martha Wichem was really for Martha Wickens).
Parish Church, Chiddingly, Sussex
Nov 19th 1864
James Stemp, age 27, Bachelor, Labourer, resident of Chiddingly, Father = ____ Baker (no first name given), no profession given
Martha Wickens, age 23, Spinster, resident of Chiddingly, Father = William Wickens, Labourer
After Banns
James and Martha made their mark
Witnesses were Thomas Underdown and Esther Underdown (both made their mark)
Possible witness was Trayton White, Clerk
This indicated that Martha had at least three children before she married James.
It seems strange that James did not know the full name of his father.
The following christening took place on 7 Aug 1870
Horace Mays (Alias Stemp); son of James Mays (alias Stemp), Labourer of Chiddingly, and Martha Mays (alias Stemp)
This was most surprising since it was the only one of the Stemp christenings to mention the name "Mays." This supports the 1861 census information.
I've made several strides forward but suspect that James Stemp/May/Mays/Baker is going to be an extremely solid brick wall. I do, however, have a lead for Martha's parents.
Mark
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Milton - Brighton, Eastbourne Foord - Westham, Ringmer Sellens/Sellins/Sellings - Sedlescombe, Crowhurst Cash - Tonbridge, Kent Harding - Horsham Bodle - Hailsham, Alfriston Crowhurst - Hailsham, Westham Roods/Roads/Rhodes - Hailsham, Westham Sinnock - Hailsham Silsby - Brighton Thomas - Brighton Tullett - Brighton Verrall - Sussex Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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I can't help with the surname in 1861 - I've gone back and forth through the pages - looked for another James born Rotherfield 
