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Pages: [1] 2
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Topic: 1861 Census for Carlisle Cumberland (Read 689 times)
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Barbara E
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 29
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:)Hi Andy
Thank you for that. Well looks like its back to the drawing board for me, again.
The problem is I can't find this little boy 'Hugh' before his marriage in '76 and I have his life from there on forwards.
The census details for him in '81 says b. Cockermouth (I had this checked a few years ago for him but was told nothing found) & in '91 & '01 it says b. Carlisle. (he lived in Burnley, Lancashire from '76 till his death in 1921) - and his birth wasn't registered (well not under the name Hugh Marsden) but he must have been somewhere? ? at the age of 6 or 7 living with someone, the d.o.b. works out at 1855/56.
Looks like I need to go further afield, Maryport and the like I think, would you have any ideas?
Thanks
Barbara E
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Size(Cheshire,Liverpool)-Thompson(Cornwall,London)-Anderson(Sweden,London)-Burgess(Kent)-Marsden(Cumbria,Lancashire)-Robinson(Cumbria, Burnley, Lancashire)-Hope(Denham, Camberwell, London) - Dutton (Oldham Lancs, Leeds Yorks.) - Saville (Knarsboro Yorks.)
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Barbara E
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 29
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 Hi Andy,
Thank you I would be most grateful for your help on this.
I've had a thought that maybe he might be in Carlisle in 1871 - I had a search in Cockermouth for 1861 and he wasn't there. My next idea was Maryport as I remember someone saying his mother had connections there? its just a thought.
Barbara E
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Size(Cheshire,Liverpool)-Thompson(Cornwall,London)-Anderson(Sweden,London)-Burgess(Kent)-Marsden(Cumbria,Lancashire)-Robinson(Cumbria, Burnley, Lancashire)-Hope(Denham, Camberwell, London) - Dutton (Oldham Lancs, Leeds Yorks.) - Saville (Knarsboro Yorks.)
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Barbara E
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 29
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 Hi Andy,
hope I've caught you in time, I have found my little boy Hugh (I've just been in Carlisle doing research at the castle for 2 days) - so hope you get this messege before you go looking for my query!
I found him in Duke Street on the 1861 census, under the name of Mcavoy (this does fit as I do know that was his father's name). If you have time and the offer is still open, would you mind seeing if you could see him on the 1871 census because I didn't have time, he is in 1861 living with his mother Mary Jane Mcavoy aged 40 and his brothers and sisters (no father though? and he wasnt dead then as he was still alive in 1876 - Hugh Mcavoy father)
Anyway thank you
Barbara E
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Size(Cheshire,Liverpool)-Thompson(Cornwall,London)-Anderson(Sweden,London)-Burgess(Kent)-Marsden(Cumbria,Lancashire)-Robinson(Cumbria, Burnley, Lancashire)-Hope(Denham, Camberwell, London) - Dutton (Oldham Lancs, Leeds Yorks.) - Saville (Knarsboro Yorks.)
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Barbara E
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 29
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 Hi Andy
Phew! I am so sorry that you had already started searching for me, but I mailed you as soon as I got home from Carlisle.
Right the story so far, if it helps!
Hugh was always known from 1876 by the surname Marsden even on his marriage cert. but his father's name was down as Hugh Mcvoy, so I surmised that my Hugh had been illigitimate possibly? but for some years now I have never been able to find his existence before 1876 and I did know that he had connections with Cockermouth & Carlisle (census details for '81,'91,1901 are down with these areas in as place of birth).
You found me the Marsden family in 1861 in Duke Street, Carlisle last time, 2 Henry's and a Daniel (you haven't anymore details on them have you? like ages and place of birth?) well when I went to the castle last week I thought Duke street was a good starting point as any because I haven't a clue where to start other than possibly the poorest side of the river? I missed the family you found for me but low and behold up popped the Mcavoy family (different translations of surname but as my Hugh could not read or write I guess he is partly to blame telling the registrar at his wedding his fathers surname was Mcvoy) anyway he is the only Hugh I have found country wide that fits the bill, with the age and the family names he lives with ( Mary Jane his mother, sisters Mary, Jane, Betsy, Sarah, brothers John, Daniel (or David) and someone else I can't decipher on the '61 census) these seem to have been passed down to his children also. I have found other Hugh Marsden's born around the same year 1854/55/56 but there are only 3 and I have followed them and their families and they do not match up with mine. So I am 98% sure this is my family. When or Where they changed surnames is a mystery to unravel in the future and I'm sure it will all come out in the end (takes a lot of time). So what I seem to be looking for are the same christian names but with surnames either Marsden's or Mcavoy's, I have checked Caldewgate in '71 and found nothing for the Mcavoy's but ran out of time and couldn't do anymore.
Another cheeky question for you, have you access to the indexes for 1841? I managed to find 6 ref. but the person helping me couldnt locate the fiche & I had to come away without being able to check them (this is another name anyway nothing to do with the dreaded Marsden/Mcavoy trail).
Thanks for your help
Barbara E
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Size(Cheshire,Liverpool)-Thompson(Cornwall,London)-Anderson(Sweden,London)-Burgess(Kent)-Marsden(Cumbria,Lancashire)-Robinson(Cumbria, Burnley, Lancashire)-Hope(Denham, Camberwell, London) - Dutton (Oldham Lancs, Leeds Yorks.) - Saville (Knarsboro Yorks.)
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Barbara E
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 29
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Hi Andy,
I am looking for the following found ref's on the 1841
name: Elizabeth Henderson - she would be about 3yrs old in 1841 - living with her mother Elizabeth and father Robert, I found them in 1851 living in Gaythrop Lane, Caldewgate.
She must be one of the following in 1841:
147/b2, 147/f17, 150/e6, 148/h18 (there's 2 of these), 144/b18, 151/c16 (there's 2 of these also).
Thank you
Barbara E
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Size(Cheshire,Liverpool)-Thompson(Cornwall,London)-Anderson(Sweden,London)-Burgess(Kent)-Marsden(Cumbria,Lancashire)-Robinson(Cumbria, Burnley, Lancashire)-Hope(Denham, Camberwell, London) - Dutton (Oldham Lancs, Leeds Yorks.) - Saville (Knarsboro Yorks.)
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AndyH
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 53
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Hi Barbara
Do you know Carlisle well? When you were at Carlisle Castle, you barely a stones throw from Gawthorp Lane. Funnily enough, I had occasion to visit the place myself just a couple of months ago through work. It is no longer residential (thank goodness! the slums there were pulled down decades ago!)
Anyway:
1841 Census Carlisle, Caldewgate HO107 0176
John Street
Elizabeth Henderson 25 yrs (No occupation shown) born in county: Yes
Thomas 7 yrs " Yes
Elizabeth 4 yrs " Yes
Sarah 1 yr " Yes
There is no Robert listed here.
The only Robert in the surname index is shown as a boy of 12 yrs, living with family in a Lane off English Street
Puzzling find re Marsden in Duke Street
Surname index showed Daniel, Henry and Henry but when I looked into the record (local ref 57 I6) the family residing there was shown as:
Henry Marsden Head Marr 20yrs Cotton Weaver Cumb'land, Cockermouth
Sarah? (poor writing) Wife M 21yrs Cotton Weaver "
Daniel Son 1 mth Carlisle
So I am assuming the surname index has been compiled incorrectly
Trust this is of value.
Regards
AndyH
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Searching For Hunton, Fazackerley, Balfour, Mounsey, Parker and Rutherford in Cumberland and North East, Arnison in Westmorland, Scott and Telford in Dumfries & Galloway
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Barbara E
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 29
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Hello Andy
Thank you so much for that information. You are a marvel!
The puzzle of the mysterious families continues.
The Marsden's you found are just part of the family I'm tracking (these can now go on the back burner for now)
You found my gt.gt. grandmother Elizabeth Henderson (aged 3) on the 1841 for me and I can't thank you enough for that. Funny that later some 17yrs on she returned and had a couple of children in 'John's Street'.
You ask if I am familiar with Carlisle, well only the centre really (had family connections there years ago and visited as a child regularly- my Aunt & Uncle ran a shop in the centre) but seen a lot more of it since finding the family roots up there, I never dreamed that some of my roots originated from there and I was last seen with camera taking photos of John's Street, Duke Street, etc. a couple of weeks ago. Pity I hadn't thought to look on the map to see Gawthorp Lane? Never mind another time (I feel a spring break visit coming on).
Now please tell me if I am outstaying my welcome? I don't want to presume on your kindness too much and I appreciate you must have lots of searching for yourself and others. So if I am becoming a pain please let me know. and I will step back.
If your kind offer of the 1871 census look-up is still on green light the following details should help!
I received my Hugh's birthcert. today and found (as I had suspected) he was born in Cockermouth, 'Butts Fold'.
So I think I am looking for a boy named Hugh surname could be: Mcavoy, Mcneal, Marsden - aged 16 and he could be living either in Cockermouth or Carlisle. If not my research goes down to Lancashire.
Thank you Andy
Your help is very much appreciated
All the best
Barbara E
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Size(Cheshire,Liverpool)-Thompson(Cornwall,London)-Anderson(Sweden,London)-Burgess(Kent)-Marsden(Cumbria,Lancashire)-Robinson(Cumbria, Burnley, Lancashire)-Hope(Denham, Camberwell, London) - Dutton (Oldham Lancs, Leeds Yorks.) - Saville (Knarsboro Yorks.)
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AndyH
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 53
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Hi Barbara
Checked Carlisle 1871 surname index for McAvoy, McVoy, MacVoy and MacAvoy - no record.
McNeal is a new name, so I could check for that.
There is no surname index for Cockermouth, so I'm afraid the prospect of a search on all these surnames in the Cockermouth area is just too big a task to consider (at the expense of my own research with the time available to me)
Let's just hope he is hiding in Carlisle!
Trusting you will appreciate my position.
Best regards
AndyH
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Searching For Hunton, Fazackerley, Balfour, Mounsey, Parker and Rutherford in Cumberland and North East, Arnison in Westmorland, Scott and Telford in Dumfries & Galloway
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