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Topic: 1841 Look Up Please (Read 895 times)
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banyard1
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 13
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh yes, I see it. Amazing that you can still recognise a lot of the streets from today's A-Z...!
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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1851 census coming up:-
1565/241 2, Marshall Street
John Barnard 40 shoe maker born Thaxted
Elizabeth 43 Coulton Staffs
John 16 Serv. unemp.
Robert 14
Henry 10
Lydia 7
James 4
Samuel 1 All children born St.Georges.
other people in the house
John Walton or Watson 26 Ribbon winder born Leak Staffs
Martha 26 " "
Jennifer
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Hi,
It could well be John & Martha Watson, they could be related to the Watson that Louisa was staying with right at the begining of the posts?
1851 census 1567/717 27 Flint Street? St.Peter Walworth Lambeth, not very clear.
William Barnard 70 Printer/Engraver born Fyfield Essex
Sarah 69 " "
Samuel 44 son married Copperplater printer " "
Henry 11 grandson born Westminster.
Henry looks like he may link the family to John & Mary Shoe maker 13 Marshall Street as they have a Henry who should be this age?
Jennifer
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Hi, thought I would look up a few of the older Barnards on the 1851 index to see if any were from Essex. Not as easy as I thought, they all live to a good age those Barnards!
1568/127 4 Arnold Place St.Marys Newington
Samuel Barnard 61 Fund Holder born Thaxted
Mary 80 wife "
Maria 28 dau un.m. born North West Gullet? Essex
Marianne 24 dau un.m. " " "
Jennifer
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Last of the Essex born 65-75 year olds living in Lambeth. 1 in Stepney
1574/414 Brixton Road Lambeth
Henry Barnard 65 wid Lieut.Col.H.E.J.C.S born Dunmow Essex
Eleanor dau 27 Annuitant born Hampstead
Hester dau 36 " born London
1552/198 10 Old Norfolk St. Stepney
William Barnard 76 wid Corn Chandler out of business born Gt.Dunmow Essex.
Jennifer
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Bryant
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4993
Grandfather Bryant 1897
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Lets see if we can unravel the relationships of this lot from the 1851
1851 census
HO107/1530/312 3 George Yard City
Sarah Taylor 56 (wid) House keeper Windsor Berks.
Louisa Barnard 12 G.Dau Newington
William Barnard 9 g.son "
Henry Hill Barnard 5 g.son "
Ellen Watson 31 serv City B?
John Armstrong 20 Nephew Clerk Stratford Essex
Elizabeth Armstrong 27 Wife " "
This Ellen Watson may tie in with the Mary Watson who Louisa was staying with in 1841.
Sarah's maiden name just may now be Armstrong??
Jennifer
Possibility for John Armstrong.....but where's the connection if any?
THOMAS ARMSTRONG married MARY ANN BRIGHTON...14th OCT 1834....ST DUNSTAN, STEPNEY
1841
VICTORY ROW, M.E.O.T, STEPNEY, MIDDX (NEXT DOOR TO STRATFORD)
THOMAS ARMSTRONG 30 SHOE M J YES
ANN " 30 IRELAND
CATHERINE " 15 YES
JOHN " 10 YES (C. John James Armstrong 6 sep 1835...St Dunstan, Stepney)
EMMA " 9 YES (C. Emma Armstrong 6 sep 1835 " " )
JANE " 4 YES
JULIA " 1 YES
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JOHN ARMSTRONG married ELIZA ANN STRAKER....Dec qtr...1857...Lambeth R.D
1861
77 LAMBS CONDUIT STREET, ST GEO THE MARTYR, LONDON, MIDDX
JOHN ARMSTRONG HEAD 29 OILMAN employing 1 boy STEPNEY, MIDDX
JOHN " SON 1 KENTISH TOWN, MIDDX (b.mar qtr 1860 Pancras R.D)
ELIZA A " WIFE 34 BLACKFRIARS, SURREY
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*Living in a house that appears to be owned? by an Italian designer and his French wife
1871
3 LAMBS CONDUIT STREET, ST GEO THE MARTYR, MIDDX
JOHN ARMSTRONG HEAD 59 OILMAN STEPNEY, MIDDX
ELIZA " WIFE 44 SOUTHWARK, SURREY
ELIZA " DAUR 9 LONDON, MIDDX (imbecile from birth)
KATE " DAUR 2 "
+ 2 servants
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Researching names BRYANT (Camberwell), PASTERFIELD (Essex and all), RAY (Holborn/Islington areas back to Brentford), POWELL (Glouc & beyond?) Fletcher (Glouc into Warwickshie into Lancs?), BUCKLEY (Chatham area), Watson (Chatham area). Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Hi, I have gone back to the begining with this one.
1.We started with a grandmother Sarah Taylor who was a householder
2. Father William Barnard was a Translator of languages
3. William (jnr) aged 19 (1861 census) is a school teacher
4. Henry Hill aged 15 (1861 census) is a solicitors clerk
This all suggests to me they are educated people.
In 1881 census I have found a Henry De Cruz Barnard um. 33 Born Southwark Cert. Teacher National School
Ashton in Makerfield? Lancs.
Could he be Henry Hill Barnard?
How are we connecting any of these to Shoemakers or Essex born Barnards?
Can somebody explain the link?
Jennifer
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Hi, and can we have the full details from Louisa's birth certificate.
Mother's maiden name
Father's name & occupation
Who registered the birth & where were they living.
Did Louisa have a middle name?
Jennifer
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Hi, I have got a nasty feeling you are going to say you already have this !!! If they have, Bryant I have already said it.
After checking every Sarah Taylor in Lambeth, Bingo number ten turns up trumps.
1871 census 669/137 343 Kennington Road Lambeth
William Bernard? Barnard 29 Secretary born Lambeth
Sarah Ann wife 29 place of birth not given
Herbert 8 Newington
Eveline Louisa 6 Mile End
Edith Alexandra 5 St.Hackney
Henry Dawson? 3 Camberwell
Annetta Clara 1 Newington
Robert Arthur 7 months Lambeth
Sarah Taylor 80 g.mother Annuitant born Uxbridge.
Jennifer
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Hi, How does Thomas Hills Barnard who married Sarah Lydia Draper St.Martins in the Fields 8th Oct.1837 fit in to the picture?
Jennifer
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banyard1
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 13
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I've received the marriage certificate of William Barnard and Martha Randall now and I fear it's the wrong William Barnard - it states that William was a Bachelor when he was married and gives his profession as Farmer. It doesn't give his age (it just says 'Full Age' in that section) but it does give his residence at time of marriage - 6 Brandon Street. His father's name is Charles Barnard who was a 'Carman'.
Looking back over all the replies, it seems to make sense to my (very) amateur eye that William and Sarah are staying with John Barnard at 13 Marshall Street in 1841, while Louisa their daughter for some reason is at Clayton Street. Then after 1841, we have a record of William jr's birth in 1842, which gives his parents as William and Sarah and their address as 8 Clayton Street, Kennington. Then in 1849, a Mary Jane Barnard was christened at Saint Mark's church, Kennington, again with William and Sarah Barnard names as parents. But by 1851, as per an earlier post, we have a household made up of Sarah Taylor, 56 widow, housekeeper born in Berks, Windsor. Louisa Barnard G/Dtr 12, William G/Son (9), Henry Hill G/Son (5) all born in Bermondsey, Surrey. Also John Armstrong, Nephew (20) a Clerk and Elizabeth, Niece (27?) both from Essex, Stratford. Lastly Ellen Walker (31) a house servant is listed. No mention of William sr, his wife Sarah or Mary Jane who would by then have been 2 - we lose track of them from this point onwards, while we have traced the others (Sarah Taylor, Louisa, William Jr and Henry Hill) through to 1901 and into living memory of older family members, who are descended from William Jr.
So if anyone has any further information / suggestions about what happened to William and Sarah Barnard (and Mary Jane) and / or John Barnard and his parents etc., it would be much appreciated.
Thanks once again,
Adrian
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Bryant
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4993
Grandfather Bryant 1897
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Post is getting rather large....facts summary
Louisa Barnard born 29/7/1838, New Road, Bermondsey...Mother: Sarah Anna, Father: William
Reg District: St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey in sub district of Leather Market, Surrey
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1841
CLAYTON STREET, KENNINGTON FIRST, ST MARY LAMBETH, SURREY
MARY WATSON 45 IND N (NOT BORN SURREY)
CHARLOTTE COPE 45 IND N
JANE WILLIAM 20 IND N
LOUISA BARNARD 2 N
LOUISA FORSTER 1 N
MARY COPE 9 Y
JOHN DEACON 7 N
ROBERT WALE 3 N
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1841
13 MARSHALL STREET, LONDON ROAD, ST GEORGE THE MARTYR, SOUTHWARK, SURREY
JOHN BARNARD 30 SHOE M Y (born Surrey)
MARY " 30 Y
JOHN " 6 Y
ROBERT " 4 Y
HENRY " 1 Y
\
WILLIAM " 20 Y
SARAH " 20 Y
\
WILLIAM FORDS 50 CARPENTER N
ELIZABETH " 45 N
\\
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1851 census
HO107/1530/312 3 George Yard City
Sarah Taylor 56 (wid) House keeper Windsor Berks.
Louisa Barnard 12 G.Dau Newington
William Barnard 9 g.son "
Henry Hill Barnard 5 g.son "
Ellen Watson 31 serv City B?
John Armstrong 20 Nephew Clerk Stratford Essex
Elizabeth Armstrong 27 Wife " "
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1871 census
343 Kennington Road Lambeth, Surrey
William Bernard? Barnard 29 Secretary born Lambeth
Sarah Ann wife 29 place of birth not given
Herbert 8 Newington
Eveline Louisa 6 Mile End
Edith Alexandra 5 St.Hackney
Henry Dawson? 3 Camberwell
Annetta Clara 1 Newington
Robert Arthur 7 months Lambeth
Sarah Taylor 80 g.mother Annuitant born Uxbridge.
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John Barnard the brother?.......
1861
2 GROVE TERRACE, MARSHALL STREET, ST GEO SOUTHWARK, SURREY
JOHN BARNARD HEAD 49 SHOEMAKER ESSEX
ELIZABETH " WIFE 51 STAFFORDSHIRE
LYDIA " DAUR 17 SOUTHWARK, SURREY
JAMES " SON 14 "
SAMUEL " SON 11 "
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1871
2 MARSHALL STREET, ST GEO SOUTHWARK, SURREY
JOHN BARNARD HEAD 59 BOOT & SHOE MAKER THAXTED, ESSEX
ELIZABETH " WIFE 63 COULTON, STAFFORD
HENRY FISHER APP 20 " "
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Researching names BRYANT (Camberwell), PASTERFIELD (Essex and all), RAY (Holborn/Islington areas back to Brentford), POWELL (Glouc & beyond?) Fletcher (Glouc into Warwickshie into Lancs?), BUCKLEY (Chatham area), Watson (Chatham area). Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jennifer c
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1579
Latest bud on my family tree
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Hi, I have checked 1841 New Road (the only one I could find was near Greenwich?) without any luck. Have you got any ref for another New Road in 1841 please Bryant.
I am not convinced on this shoe maker, even John Armstrong had an education to become a clerk?
Jennifer
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