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Topic: John William WITTE/Lily Holmes COLMAN (Read 312 times)
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baza
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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Could anyone find lily holmes colman in the 1901 sunderland census, we were trying to find john william witte and found his marriage to lily holmes colman in 1904,we did find a wilhelm witte but he appears to have been a seaman on a boat in hull 1901aged 21could this be him,and why were people on ships included in the census,this is my wifes side and she believes john witte's father came from germany to scotland and then to sunderland he was also called witte, we have since found the marriage of john williams father also called john witte to a annie pearson in sundeland 1877, could anyone give us there backgrounds from the 1881 1891 and 1901 census's thanks bazaaa
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angie2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
Got him with his family 1891 living 21 Nile st Bishopwearemouth ,Sunderland
John 38 seaman
Annie 37
Christianna 12
John W Unknown
Gordon 6 months
Jane 4
Alice 2
also there a cousin Alice N Maule (writing terrible here !)
In 1881 he's with his mother and Christianna his age there is stated as 3 months
Hope this helps
Angie 
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baza
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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Hi Angie thankyou so much for the information, It is very interesting I have sent for the two marriage certificates of my grandmother Lily with whome I used to live wiith until I was seven , my great grandparents are even more interesting as he came from Germany, and she we believe was from scotland.Would you have any more information on the 1911 census for John William and Lilly Holmes Collman,also were John and Annie at the same address in the 1881 census and how many people were in their household. thankyou again for all your trouble it has made me very happy Eileen
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angie2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I couldn't find them on the 1901 census but that could be because the name is spelt in several weird and wonderful ways!! I'll look again and let you know.Annie appears only with her son and daughter on the 1881 census.I guess father must have been at sea.
Best wishes Angie
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angie2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
did an all county search of the 1901 census using all combination spellings of the name but no luck.There are chunks of the census missing for various reasons,difficulties of transcription etc. I did find Annie in 1871 she was living as a servant to a solicitor and his family in Whitehaven cumberland.She was definately born in sunderland on this and the 1881 and 1891 census.The family next door was called Pearson (possibly a relative?)explaining her being there.They also had a swedish seaman boarding with them which could explain how she met her german seaman later?
I did find Lily in 1901 living Ouston Durham
James Colman 58
Elizabeth 54
James 24
Lily 16
Esther 12
Fred 10
John 8
Her father had a very good job in the colliery as a Weighman
The seaman you found in 1901 could not be yours as he was at home with his family at that time .He was at sea in 1881.
Hope this all helps a bit
Best wishes
Angie
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baza
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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Hi Angie thanks again for all your help i have just received two marriage certificates from the Sunderland registrar,the first one is for John william witte and Lily holmes colman,what is strange is that Lily's age is 21 her full name is holmes colman and her father is down as george graham holmes Brassfinisher ,the Lily you found was 16 in 1901,that ment she should have been 19 and taking it that her mothers name was elizabeth, the witness was Annie graham holmes were they the wrong colmans,did Lily's father die?,the date was 9-feb-1904 and it has john as a cabinet maker , looks like he got away from the sea,would it be possible to find them later in the 1911s and the 1921 census's this would bring us up to date,the other one is for John Witte and Annie pearson ,he is 24 she 23 dated 23-jan-1877 his profession mariner they were living at 2 Maudling st monkswearmouth ,have we come to a full stop or can he be found before this and was he living here,his father also named john witte was down as deceased where did they originate from is there someway of finding out. Also would it be possible to send me copies by e mail of the census pages you have seen, it would be nice to put them in my family tree. Again thank you for all you have done so far i never thought i would find anything at all. Eileen
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angie2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
With your new info I have Lily in 1891 30 Bramwell st Bishopwearmouth
George 29 Brassfinisher
Eleanor 29
Lily 8
Edward 4
Annie 2
this could be him 1871with his parents
George B 24 Iron worker
Mary 25
George 6
Frances 2
and his father in 1861 Monkwearmouth
George 1822 Northallerton yorks
Hannah 1825 Thornintoff yorks
William R 1852 Sunderland
George B 1848 ""
Ann M 1854
Elizabeth S 1858
Johnathon G 1856
His father was a police officer
Found Eleanor 1881
Uriah Colman 53 Ships carpenter
Eleanor 52
Eleanor 18
Jemima 15 Sunderland
She married George December 1884 after Lily was born explaining the Colman Holmes thing
John Witte is down as born in Prussia (now germany)and as I can't find him prior to the others I sent you my guess is he was still there until becoming a seaman.
Unfortunately census are not available to the public for 100 years so we won't get to look at 1911 until 2011!
I'm hopeless at attachments etc so i'll have to ask my husband for his help in sending pages etc so look out for those maybe at the weekend.
Hope this all makes sense will be happy to clarify anything your not sure of.
Best wishes
Angie
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baza
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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Hi Angie it always seems familiar when i write your name as it is the same as my daughters,thanks again you have been brilliant we could never have done it without your help,it looks like my grany was born out of wedlock she wasn't the first or the last thats life,she looked after me until i was seven in sunderland before coming to birmingham she was lovely and i used to think she was a jipsy.When you can send coppies could you please explain about the john witte in prussia , where did you find it and can we find the town or city where he lived,and do i need to send my e mail address to you. thanks eileen
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angie2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi glad to help.If you send your email address I'll try to get the pages to you.I saw John Wittes birthplace in the 1891 census I think.It had the town listed but the writing was so tricky to make out I couldn't be sure .I'll send the page and you can play guessing games with it!!Isat for ages with one of mine trying to make out an occupation the other day!Some of the writing is so flowery or faded it's very difficult to read. I'm new to all this too so learning all the time but I'm really getting into it all.
Best wishes
Angie
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baza
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 23
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Hi Angie any information you can give will be most welcome, i would never have known you had just started you have done an amazing job , i found a site called Port Information Gateway in this it led me to German Emigration then http://www.deutsche-auswanderer-datenbank.de/... this is where all Germans emigrated from it is the history museum Bremerhaven the old port,they will find emegrants from the early 19th centuary up to the mid 20th,they need as mutch info as possible,where they came from age etc.The charge is 15 euros iwill ask Tony Blair to send it, Americans have to pay 30 dollars shame.they say that 90% went to America lucky for us, wait to hear from you Eileen MY E Mail address is Email address removed to prevent spamming. Please use Personal Messaging system to exchange personal information.
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tom_2015
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi - I hope you both are still active on RootsChat and can see this message. I have just started researching the Holmes' family tree for my friend and have hit the proverbial brick wall!
I have George Graham Holmes (born 1918) son of George Graham (born 1893) and Mary Prentice. The George G born in 1893, was your Grandma, Lily's brother. I have seen census records back to 1881 with the Brass finisher George Graham (born 1862) who was Lily and George G (1893)'s Dad. It shows he was born in Sunderland / Bishopwearmouth and was living with his widowed mother Annie. This is where I've hit my wall, apart from the number of George Grahams to make things confusing!
Did you find any further generations of the Holmes' back before Lily's father? George Graham (born 1862) married Eleanor Jane Colman in 1884 as you have mentioned and you can see George G (1862) on the 1881, 1891 and 1911 census but the whole family has disappeared in the 1901 census. I found out Eleanor (Lily & George G's Mother) died in 1899 so you can rule out trying to find her on the census, but then I've tried different versions of Holmes and the other names but still have had no joy. The next stage I'm trying to do is just get George's (1862) father's name. Let me know if you have any further info.
many thanks,
Tom
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