Author Topic: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:  (Read 17035 times)

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« on: Thursday 25 November 04 11:14 GMT (UK) »
One possible source of information for immigrant ancestors is the National Archives at Kew:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

three areas are especially interesting:

1)  Naturalisation Records:

IF yours ancestors did in fact get naturalised; not everyone did ... (see my posting below)
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/naturalisation/

2)  Ships lists

The NA have some lists of ships for emigration and for immigration:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/migration/

3)  Internment records:

a query from "wondering" - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=21729.0  - put me on to this one :

Many immigrants from "enemy" countries were interned on the outbreak of war(s)
My guess is, that any records of internment would be kept at the National Archives at Kew.
I entered "internment of aliens" in the search box and got 57 matches, but haven't got as far as going through them all. 

If anybody has tried any of these, please could you tell us about it here, especially internment and naturalisation - It would be interesting to know what information is actually in these documents, and whether they are worth looking for ...
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

My research interests (and data found) can be seen on my website:   http://www.margulies-chronicles.com/

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Offline Haltonview

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Re: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 December 04 03:07 GMT (UK) »
Hello Bob,

.There are records of internees in the archives at Kew and I understand from HO records that someone took a census in 1916 of all the internees in the IOM under 45. I sent a request to Kew but they said I would have to go in person to do the search.  Then I heard from a researcher there that the records had been lost in the archives. I got the POW # from a lady in the Anglo-German Family History Society so there must be info. somewhere in the UK that would give the background I am looking for.  I am waiting for more news from the Society.
 Incidentally, Ernest Oswin Ihle's name in the 1901 census was written as Oswin FHLE. He was 24 at that time. Took me ages to find that.
Once again, I appreciate your information and efforts.  I'm still searching and used the addresses you gave me but no luck yet.
Robin


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Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 01 January 05 14:09 GMT (UK) »
I posted this info. on another thread, but I thought I would put it here, too, so I don't keep repeating myself.

The original question, was whether immigrants had to become naturalised.
 

As far as I know, naturalisation wasn't /isn't compulsory.  If you thought you would benefit from it, then you did it, otherwise, --- why bother ?

Nowadays naturalisation means social service benefits, travel documents, a passport, freedom from persecution (?) and all sorts of "goodies", so I suppose it would be more common.

As to when, this could happen any time. I don't know if there are any rules; in Germany the rule is (was ?) you have to live here for 5 years, have a job, etc, etc.

Then there is the other extreme:
My g-grandfather was (supposedly) german, but in the 1901 cenus he gives place of birth as Stepney. My guess is that he came over illegally or semi-legally  and didn't want to draw unnecessary attention to himself and his circumstances.
So there will be many immigrants who were never naturalised, but whose children were british by birth.

Hope this helps.
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

My research interests (and data found) can be seen on my website:   http://www.margulies-chronicles.com/

Offline Penninah

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nationality and naturalization document
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 06 January 05 14:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi all!

I got my long awaited  nationality and naturalization documents from Kew today, so i shall share with you what i have on it!

I have 12 pages, some things are difficult to read.
Firstly i have an opening letter stamped home office 1908
Regarding my rellie Heinrich Friedrich yacob Wambach;

Herewith we enclose memorial for the grant of certificate of Naturalization to the above alien together with the neccesary Declarations in support and trust that you will be able to give the matter you favourable attention.
we are, sir,
you obediant servants,
WATERLOW BROTHERS & LAYTON LMT.
Then it is signed,  JH
the under-secretary of state,
home office,
SW

On the next page it actually says CLOSED UNTIL 2009 but they must have had a change of heart!
On this page it gives the full name of alien and of agent plus the minutes and a report which has a few dates next to it and says 'favourable'

Next comes the 'enquiry by the home office'
With a letter from the  Capt Chief Constable (police officer, Ipswich)
He goes on to say that my Wambach was a man of good character, respectable etc... basically not a man that finds himself on the wrong side of the law! he writes my rellies reason for naturalization is to gain a vote and that his wife and child are British Citizens.

Next page i have; The humble memorial of said rellie
having been born in Hamburg in the Empire of Germany on february 20th 1876 to parents; Friedrich Yacob Wambach and Dorathea Dabelstien both subjects of Germany.
Then has my rellies address in Ipswich, his age and occupation; basing merchant
Then that he is a married man with one child, then childs name and age
Then his place of buisness.
 
Next page; All of his addresses from 1901 to 1908
Then underneath that it says;
That your Memorialist seeks to obtain the rights and capacities of a natural born British subject from a desire to....... This is quite hard to work out but mostly is from a business point of view, he goes on to say that he wishes more independence for his business and to have a say in matters of government!
Then it is signed.
 
The next page is his solemn declaration of his intent to stay in this country and that all info he has given is correct etc etc...

The next few pages are all in relation to his referees, Their declarations of british birth and their acquaintance with my rellie.  Then they write about his Character personally and in business etc...
Then their names, occupations and addresses.

Finally the signatures of all 4 referee's

THE END!

I hope that was of some help!

Pen  ;)
Doling- Middlesex/London +Hants, Morgan- London/Middlesex +Glouc, Vincent- London/Middlesex, Wambach (+Hamburg & Suffolk), Wadley & Wilkins.

NORTHUMBERLAND; English, Huggup & Webster.
HANTS; Heath

Any census info is crown copywright

Offline Biker

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Re: nationality and naturalization document
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 06 January 05 14:35 GMT (UK) »
Pen, a great document to have and full of interesting info by the sounds of it.
Useful to know exactly what kind of info is included as I'm waiting for one to arrive in the post myself.

Regards
Jonathan
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: nationality and naturalization document
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 06 January 05 14:37 GMT (UK) »
Pen,

thanks for putting this info on here.  It's what people have often been asking about, so it is a big help !


I just hope my g-grandfather did get naturalised, and not just settle down in this country !

Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

My research interests (and data found) can be seen on my website:   http://www.margulies-chronicles.com/

Offline JLo

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #6 on: Friday 07 January 05 13:15 GMT (UK) »
We had an 'interesting' experience with naturalisation papers that I thought I'd relate.  Our ancestor who, we believe, came from Berlin, Prussia was called Maurice Loewenthal, but was also known as Marcus, Moses and several other names.  He was born in 1831 and was married in London in 1861.  With all this in mind (and the variations on the spelling of Loewenthal) we looked in the National Archives for Naturalisation Papers.   ;D To our surprise we found some (Moses Loewenthal from Prussia, naturalised 1855), paid our hefty fee and waited with baited breath. 

Imagine the dissapointment to find it was the wrong one  :'( :'( He was far too old (born c1794), already married with six children and living in Edinburgh. 

So anyone who is related to THIS Moses Loewenthal let me know!!

Julie

PS The Papers I've got say much the same as Pen's, gives interesting background information - this Moses Loewenthal was 'by Trade a Tea Dealer and Importer of Turkey Sponges and practises the profession of Chiropodist'  :o
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Marshall, Beeson (Herts)
Lo(e)wenthal,Kavanagh, Maxam (London, Birmingham)
Harrisson, Matthews (London, Essex)
Poulton, Philbrick (Essex)
Guest, Timmins (Staffs)
Raynes/Ryall (Ireland, Birmingham)
White (Bucks)
Gunn (Scotland, Lancs, Essex)
Ison (Tamworth, Birmingham, USA, Canada)

Offline case

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #7 on: Friday 21 January 05 18:28 GMT (UK) »
I went to Kew to look for my grandfather's internment record - he was interned in Liverpool in 1940 as an enemy alien.

I found my grandmother's and great aunt's classifications as C grade enemy aliens (i.e. low risk). They were not interned. However I was told that most of the records of those people actually interned had not been released to the public and I would not be able to have access to my grandfather's records.

There is a useful book about internment of German and Austrian enemy aliens in WW2 called "The internment of aliens" by F. lafitte. I have a copy published in 1940 but it is still in print.

Offline russethouse

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 26 March 05 15:07 GMT (UK) »
Does searching the archive on line give any indication as to whether there are papers ?

 My great, great grandfather was a Philip Bender, wife Catharine Zimmer, by the time it got to the 1851 census they were entered as being born in Germany, British subjects.

Were the documents with all the info,(penninahs post) naturalisation papers or a 'denizen' and what would a 'denizen' show?

Sorry to be dim !