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Topic: phillip sharp,Jedburgh (Read 250 times)
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alison64
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 109
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi does anyone have any idea why i cannot find a birth for Phillip Sharp born in Jedburgh circa 1838,his mother was Jean Turnbull but i think she may have died not long after he was born as on the 1841 census he is living with the Little family.
Regards
Alison
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Scottish Clare
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 576
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Hi there,
There are several reasons why you might not find a birth record for him - one being that the birth may never have been registered as statutory registration did not come into effect until 1855. Before that, births were recorded in church records. Where have you tried searching for the birth, as that might help us work out why you can't find him?
Cheers,
Clare
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ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow HUTCHISON - Aberdeenshire & Stirlingshire McGREGOR - Stirlingshire TERRIS - Fife & Stirlingshire And many, many more... Website back up and running now - yay! http://www.thejuggler.net/phpGedView |
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alison64
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 109
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi thanks for replying, I havent looked at any church records only the IGI and sent to the Scottish borders archive for it but they sent back saying that they had checked the pre 1855 old parish registers for roxburghshire but couldnt find it,yet on all the census i have of him it says he was born Jedburgh.
Regards
Alison
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Scottish Clare
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 576
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Hi Alison,
There may be a variety of reasons why he can't be found. I will list all that I can think of just now...
The IGI is not as complete as the OPRs, so you may not find him on that. As I mentioned earlier, the birth may not have been registered, in which case he woudn't appear. I would not take as gospel the place of birth on a census, as that may be incorrect. I have had quite a few that have been inaccurate. If that is the case, you may have to start looking in neighbouring parishes and counties.
Another reason he might not be registered in the OPRs is that his family may not have been Church of Scotland, at which point you have to look at other church records.
It is also possible that he was registered under his mother's name, or his named was spelled wrongly or mistranscribed. There is even the possibility that the date of birth is incorrect.
So where to go from here...
I have had a quick search in the OPR registers for scotland and can find no birth of a Phillip Sharp in the whole of Scotland between 1830 and 1840. I also searched for any births at all with the surname sharp in Jedburgh, and nothing came back. I also didn't see any marriage for Jean Turnbull to anyone called Sharp.
Do you have a marriage certificate for him? This may state on it what church the marriage took place in, which might help establish if he was other than Church of Scotland.
Also, have you tracked him through the later census records? This might give a different location for place of birth or work out to a different birth date.
I am sorry that I am asking more questions than giving answers - but your Philip Sharp is starting to look quite elusive! 
Cheers,
Clare
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ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow HUTCHISON - Aberdeenshire & Stirlingshire McGREGOR - Stirlingshire TERRIS - Fife & Stirlingshire And many, many more... Website back up and running now - yay! http://www.thejuggler.net/phpGedView |
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alison64
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 109
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for your message,well,my elusive Phillip,the info i have is:-
1841 census living at Castlegate,Jedburgh with:-
Jennet Little head 60 born Scotland
David Little son 19 Mason born Roxburghshire
Philip Sharp lodger 3 born Roxburghshire
1851 census living at Castle street,Jedburgh with:-
James Little head 32 Mason born Jedburgh
Ann Little wife 34 born Kelso
John Little son 10 born Jedburgh
James Little son 3 born Jedburgh
Jane Little daug. 1mth born Jedburgh
Philip Sharp lodger 12 Tailor born Jedburgh
1861 census he is married and living at 46 Castlegate,Jedburgh with:-
Philip Sharp head 22 tailor born Jedburgh
Jannet Sharp wife 22 born Jedburgh
Have his marriage cert 1858 Jedburgh says he is 20,a tailor,no fathers name on it but mother is Jean Turnbull deceased. James Little is witness.
Have his death cert 1901 age 64 it says reputed father Peter Sharp(brewer) and Jane Turnbull mother.
What a carry on,have been searching for years now and still no further forward.
Regards
Alison
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Scottish Clare
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 576
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Hi Alison,
There are 2 marriages for a Peter Sharp in Jedburgh, but they are both after 1841 (1842 and 1844), but they could be for the 'correct' Peter Sharp. I am wondering if the birth wasn't registered because of the potential illegitimacy of the birth 
Do you happen to know if he was related to the Little family in any way? It seems strange for a 3 year-old to be referred to as a lodger.
Cheers,
Clare
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ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow HUTCHISON - Aberdeenshire & Stirlingshire McGREGOR - Stirlingshire TERRIS - Fife & Stirlingshire And many, many more... Website back up and running now - yay! http://www.thejuggler.net/phpGedView |
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alison64
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 109
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,both those marriages are the same Peter Sharp and the reputable father of Phillip,I think Phillip was illegitimate 
Would there be any record of that?
Regards
Alison
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Scottish Clare
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 576
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Hi there,
I have a couple of death certificates where the person is stated to be illegitimate, and seen it in some birth certs and in the OPRs. However, if the birth wasn't registered, we won't know if that was the case.
Another avenue to pursue might be the Kirk Session records for Jedburgh. They often contain details of illegitimacies as couples or individuals were 'hauled up' in front of the elders to explain why they were having a child out of wedlock. Unfortunately these records are held in the National Archives of Scotland and are not available online.
Cheers,
Clare
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ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow HUTCHISON - Aberdeenshire & Stirlingshire McGREGOR - Stirlingshire TERRIS - Fife & Stirlingshire And many, many more... Website back up and running now - yay! http://www.thejuggler.net/phpGedView |
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Scottish Clare
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 576
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Hi there,
I found this link that might explain things better than I have... http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=551&578
Cheers,
Clare
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ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow HUTCHISON - Aberdeenshire & Stirlingshire McGREGOR - Stirlingshire TERRIS - Fife & Stirlingshire And many, many more... Website back up and running now - yay! http://www.thejuggler.net/phpGedView |
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