Author Topic: Apprenticeship records & settlement records  (Read 4607 times)

Offline jb72

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Apprenticeship records & settlement records
« on: Sunday 19 March 06 18:38 GMT (UK) »
I've been advised that I might be able to find out a bit more about an elusive ancestor, Timothy Horsman 1759-1841, via apprenticeship records (he was a carpenter) and settlement records (I believe he may have moved to London from elsewhere in the UK).

Does anyone know where I would go to find & search such records?

Thanks.
Joe
Bainbridge, Brice, Bright, Bruford, Carnall, Chappell, Doble, Fenton, Griffiths, Holliday, Horsman, Joice, Kynoch, Morland, Packington, Rack, Reavley, Reeday, Ruthen, Southall, Staniland, Thompson

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Offline Valda

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Re: Apprenticeship records & settlement records
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 19 March 06 20:33 GMT (UK) »
Origins has apprenticeship records but it is a pay by view website

http://www.britishorigins.com/#collections

If he was apprenticed to his father there will be no records because these records are about taxes paid on the payments to the master for taking on the apprentice. Poor apprenticeships were also exempt from tax - so no records on them either. The later the record the less detail. The National Archives research guide gives you information on apprenticeship records (The Origins website is an itranscription/index of what is held at TNA).

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=295

As Timothy died in Camberwell in 1841 I wouldn't class that as London at that time. More Surrey being absorbed into London.

Settlement records where they have survived (a very hit and miss affair) are by parish/ later poor law union. Something is usually going wrong in your life if you are claiming settlement or if you are on the wrong end of a removal order. These are poor law records. If Timothy worked all his life and wasn't claiming parish relief he wasn't likely to get involved in poor law records. Even if he claimed relief towards the end of his life he had presumably established settlement by working consistently in the area (if not the removal order would still only send him back to his last place of settlement - where he had established his settlement by work or apprenticeship) and not his parish of birth. The settlement order would establish he had right of settlement in the parish and the reasons why.

This website explains the poor law system in much more detail.

http://www.mdlp.co.uk/resources/general/poor_law.htm

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Burrow Digger

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Re: Apprenticeship records & settlement records
« Reply #2 on: Monday 20 March 06 18:02 GMT (UK) »
Origins has apprenticeship records but it is a pay by view website
http://www.britishorigins.com/#collections
This website explains the poor law system in much more detail.
http://www.mdlp.co.uk/resources/general/poor_law.htm
Regards
Valda

Origins is NOT pay by view. Its pay by subscription. :)  (at least it was last year when I paid 22 pounds for a 1 years subscription.)

You can also try the  A2A archives site.  http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp

They have info on what records are held by the local registry offices.

If you find a record that might be about your family, you need to contact the local registry office with the record number and see what comes up.

I have found wills, apprenticeship records and settlement records at this place.   ;D

BD
BURROW, BICKHAM, EVANS, SULLEY, STONE - Devon
STEPHENS, MALLET, ADAMS - Cornwall
HANCOCK , BUSSON - Somerset
MCCALLUM, MCDIARMID, MCNEILL - Argyle, Scotland
WALLS, SUTHERLAND, SIMPSON - Orkney, Scotland
FAIRBAIRN - Fife, Scotland
THOMPSON - Aberdeen, Scotland

Offline Valda

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Re: Apprenticeship records & settlement records
« Reply #3 on: Monday 20 March 06 19:01 GMT (UK) »
Sorry slip of the typing, because I have SOG membership I have limited access to Origins, so my brain slipped, but as I said anything you find there on apprenticeship records you can access at The National Archives. It is whether you can access The National Archives which many can't.
I agree about A2A but I think those sort of poor law and apprenticeship finds are not really within the London area on A2A. The London Metropolitan Archives does place material on A2A (Middlesex Court Sessions are very useful) but also has its own growing database which at present is only accessible when you visit LMA (I did find a removal order on that). LMA also has its own will index which is online on their website but I'm not sure as yet covers the later C18th.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Burrow Digger

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Re: Apprenticeship records & settlement records
« Reply #4 on: Monday 20 March 06 20:06 GMT (UK) »

Thats ok - Since I dont have SOG anything, I didnt realise that you have restrictions.  :o

And I dont (as yet) have any London connections at all.  So I didnt realise that A2A is poor in the area of London records.

I have found quite a lot of good stuff pertaining to my Devon families. :)

BD
BURROW, BICKHAM, EVANS, SULLEY, STONE - Devon
STEPHENS, MALLET, ADAMS - Cornwall
HANCOCK , BUSSON - Somerset
MCCALLUM, MCDIARMID, MCNEILL - Argyle, Scotland
WALLS, SUTHERLAND, SIMPSON - Orkney, Scotland
FAIRBAIRN - Fife, Scotland
THOMPSON - Aberdeen, Scotland

Offline Valda

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Re: Apprenticeship records & settlement records
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 21 March 06 08:00 GMT (UK) »
Different record offices have put on to A2A different types of records. The LMA has not concentrated on poor law records, or apprenticeship records but it has used lottery funding to put on a great many other types of records such as the Middlesex session records where I have one excellent find. I wouldn't say London has poor coverage. There are lots of different record offices covering the area (Surrey and Essex fo instance as well as the London boroughs local studies centres). The Guildhall is indexing its fire insurance records. So lots of material for London, but not so much the records that were specified in the original question.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jb72

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Re: Apprenticeship records & settlement records
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 21 March 06 08:12 GMT (UK) »
Valda & BD,

Thanks very much for your help on this - much appreciated.

Joe
Bainbridge, Brice, Bright, Bruford, Carnall, Chappell, Doble, Fenton, Griffiths, Holliday, Horsman, Joice, Kynoch, Morland, Packington, Rack, Reavley, Reeday, Ruthen, Southall, Staniland, Thompson