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Topic: Williamson/Deaville Stockport Bredbury (Read 310 times)
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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A mystery surrounds the possible connection of the two above surnames in the C19th . I have found references to a Williamson and Deaville partnership in the past in Yorkshire - but lost track of it, now I need it of course! and so went back to look at the roots in Stockport. Joshua Williamson was born in 1845ish in Canal St Stockport and also a Deaville is located in Canal Street a few years apart. Joshua's father - also Joshua I think may go into partnership with Deaville and i have spotted a Jabez Deaville in the area later on again - so did Joshua Jnr become the partner?. Joshua Jnr's mother was Mary Clayton. Any assistance in clearing up this little mystery would be greatly appreciated.
M
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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peterbennett
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3097
Samuel if ever an Ag Lab looked like one it was he
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Hi
Have you had a look in the Stockport Historical directory site ?
http://s1.stockport.gov.uk/Borough/Heritage/GenealogicalDatabase/open.asp
There is a partnership between a Deaville and a Williamson in 1837 as Hat Manufacturors, there does not seem to be a mention of a Joshua either as a single trader or in a partnership.
hope this helps
peterbennett
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Peter,
Many thanks for your reply. Yes this is this partnership that we know absolutely nothing about at all.
All we ever knew from family, and as confirmed/denied, by census returns was that both Joshua Jnr and Snr were Carders in the mills. This partnership is a complete mystery.
My digging will continue!
M
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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rolnora
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 232
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Hi,
I found a snippet of information whilst reading a booklet at the reference library and thought it might be of interest to you.
It states that several hatters occupied premises in Canal Street during the early days of the hatting industry. One of them "John Williamson made hats on commision at his premises on Canal Street until 1834 when he was joined by John Deaville. However, in 1840 Williamson was thrown from a coach and was killed and the business rapidly detiorated. Although Deaville paid all the debts, the effects of losing all his money affected his mind and he died insane."
Hope this is of some help.
Regards,
Pat
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« Last Edit: Sunday 23 April 06 11:49 BST (UK) by rolnora »
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Carson, Stockport, Clowes/Clews, Stockport Mollard, Wilmslow, Handforth, Darlington, Cheadle, Cheshire Shanley, Cheshire and Ireland Quinn, Ireland, Stoke on Trent and Stockport Bowden, Stockport, Rooking, Addingham, Yorkshire Flannigan/ Flannagan, Macclesfield and Stockport Census information is Crown Copyright from, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Pat
Many many thanks....
Now I am totally confused! We think that there is a good chance of John Williamson being Joshua snrs father but it is guesswork more than anything at present. With this info I will go and re-cover my steps and see if anything can tie in at all.
You wouldn't by any chance know which booklet it was would you??
It seems that dates from the booklet you have read show that the partnership details in the Stockport Directory may be out of date or for the children of the original partners possibly!
Thanks again
M
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Logged
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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rolnora
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 232
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Hi M,
Sorry I've added more confusion to the mix, hope you are able to sort it out.
The book was, "The Growth of the Hatting industry in Stockport" by Mrs Kathleen Hoctor for the Elizabeth Gaskell College of Education. They had taken the passage I quoted to you from a book by William Barber called "Chronicles of Canal Street"printed in 1965. I'm hopeful that a copy of it might be at Stockport Library and I'll ask next time I visit.
As Peter said there is an entry in the 1837 directory but as it doesn't give christian names it's hard to know if it's the sons carrying on the trade.
If I find anything more I will keep you posted.
Regards,
Pat.
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Carson, Stockport, Clowes/Clews, Stockport Mollard, Wilmslow, Handforth, Darlington, Cheadle, Cheshire Shanley, Cheshire and Ireland Quinn, Ireland, Stoke on Trent and Stockport Bowden, Stockport, Rooking, Addingham, Yorkshire Flannigan/ Flannagan, Macclesfield and Stockport Census information is Crown Copyright from, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Pat
The line we are investgating is my mother's grandmothers family. We only knew of Joshua (Jnr) from stories my mother's grandmother told her and so on and so forth.
All this is brand new information for which there are no family stories to relate to. I spoke with my mother this afternoon and she is at a loss as to why the tale was not told. We think, on reflection that this is the right John Williamson but I am still going to have to "do the numbers" again and go through my files.
Your offer of assistance is greatly appreciated and anything you may come across I would be thankful for.
Regards
M
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Logged
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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rolnora
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 232
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If the family were originally from Stockport and
you find, when you've done your numbers again, that you need anything from the parish records,
let me know and I will do my best to find them for you.
Cheers,
Pat.
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Carson, Stockport, Clowes/Clews, Stockport Mollard, Wilmslow, Handforth, Darlington, Cheadle, Cheshire Shanley, Cheshire and Ireland Quinn, Ireland, Stoke on Trent and Stockport Bowden, Stockport, Rooking, Addingham, Yorkshire Flannigan/ Flannagan, Macclesfield and Stockport Census information is Crown Copyright from, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Pat
Right, eyes-down, look-in - here we go! (Well I did say I was doing the numbers!)
This is what we are 99.9% certain about:-
Joshua Williamson born 9th March 1845 Canal Street, parents Mary Williamson formerly Clayton, with father, Joshua Williamson, IS our Grandfather Josh (as he was known) Birth cert details - copy obtained. Place of birth - Canal Street - yeyheyhay 
From here on in it gets a bit mirky... 
I have found a deed of gift from 1869 stating that a Joshua Williamson died 1870 in Duke Street. We think this could well be Joshua Senior, G/father Josh's Dad above. I now need to track down the death certificate. (Duke Street features in Joshua Jnrs life as my mothers grandmother was either born there or lived there, I cant quite recall.) I understand it is/was quite a "main road".
Hopefully the death cert will confirm the approximate DOB for Joshua Snr as the only one I have found so far is born to a John and Martha Williamson back in 1800 and I am not happy with this as it is. I can't verify it anywhere at all. 
The reason we think that John Williamson is involved somewhere is that we did get our hands on an admon for a John Williamson for 1842 whose wife, Mary was left with everything to sort out, debts, knick knacks and whathaveyou. The address was Canal Street the profession was Hatter so all looks good except the date being a tad late! However, this now conflicts with the details from the booklet you kindly provided of 1824 where he falls from a coach - a slight anomoly you cant get away with of 16 years! Hence the confusion doubles along with the info in the Directory! 
Not that I feel flush at all, but I went mad yesterday and ordered a will I spotted for a William Deaville which I had not seen before. (Thats just by the by) I thought I would re check the data base and hey presto!
Do you think I stand a chance of sorting this out - I am beginning to wear myself out! 
M
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Logged
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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rolnora
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 232
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Hi M,
Oh dear, I didn't do you any favours did I?
I've had a look at the 1851 census, only one Joshua of the right age which will be the one have already found. His father's name is given as John b1801 which I think
must be a mistake because on the 1861, fathers name is
Joshua and it is the same family. They lived at 17 Lowe Street which was 2 streets away from Duke Street and that's where the family lived [no 76] in 1861. On the 1871 census Joshua jnr is married to Mary b1843 and has a daughter Elizabeth b 1870 and is still living at Duke Street but at No 80. Living at No 76 is Catherine Williamson, b1811, widow,born in Bolton, Lancashire.
Cheshire Bmd shows a Joshua Williamson died at the age of 71 in 1870, ST1/55/31. you can print the form and send off for the death certificate if you think this is the one you are looking for.
I've found a marriage for a Joshua to a Mary Alcock in 1868 at St Mary's Stockport if this is yours I can find the details for you.
I can't for the life of me see how John fits in to all this I am now wondering if he could have been Joshua's brother, is that a possibility?
I've double checked the date that I took from the book and it is the correct one.
Pat.
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Carson, Stockport, Clowes/Clews, Stockport Mollard, Wilmslow, Handforth, Darlington, Cheadle, Cheshire Shanley, Cheshire and Ireland Quinn, Ireland, Stoke on Trent and Stockport Bowden, Stockport, Rooking, Addingham, Yorkshire Flannigan/ Flannagan, Macclesfield and Stockport Census information is Crown Copyright from, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Mair
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 341
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Pat
The plot thickens!!!!
This deed of gift mentions a Catherine Williamson - we thought it could have been a second marriage for Joshua Snr! You have found a Catherine in Duke Street, at the old family's house No 76, the following year in the 1871 census......what is going on?
Joshua Jnr (can we call him Josh -its easier!) Josh did marry Mary Alcock and the daughter born in 1870, Elizabeth is my mother's grandmother who caused all this! Elizabeth Williamson the daughter, had three siblings Mary, Annie and guess who is little brother -John! Hence, we think John is in Josh's line as it is the first (and only) boy despite the possibility that Mary Alcock's father was a John also! 'Mmmm more confusion to the pot!
I too have spotted this death cert entry for Joshua in 1870 which puts the DOB in 1799 which is reflected in the entry of the Joshua born to a John Williamson and Martha as previously mentioned. If I could find out which John Williamson the will of 1842 relates too that could be the key, I may just have to plunge and go for this death cert and be totally proved wrong re Joshua Snr's mother being called Martha. Martha is not a name we have spotted any where since - not that we have spotted many individuals at all really.
Are there any child's names given in the census records you have viewed at all? just to see if they follow on generation wise that is. The reason I ask is that the names of Josh's children are still with us today - middle names may be but they are still in use!
Mair (Mary - but from the Welsh side of the family!)
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Logged
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Researching-
Hughes C19th Caerhun/Llanllechid, Cae
Rowland(s) C18th/19th - Llanllyfni, Llanberis, Llanllechid Cae. Wisconsin, Mid West,West Coast States USA
Cardwell C19th - Great & Little Marton, Lancs
Williamson & Lambert C19th Stockport, Ches
Barnicoat C19th and before Cornwall Ches/Lancs C19/20th
and not forgetting.......
Jones - Garn/Dolbenmaen, Llanfihangel y Pennant (Cae), Lleyn Penninsula
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rolnora
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 232
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Hi Mair,
You learn something every day, never knew that Mair was Welsh for Mary, thanks for that little bit of info.
Josh was one of 8 children, Martha was the first born daughter and John first born son, so it could well be that John and Martha Williamson are Joshua snr's parents. Do you have any idea where and when they married?
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
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For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
They all were Cotton Mill workers and Martha is down as being married but there isn't a hubby listed.
They also had Grace Deane abt 1827 and her daughter Elizabeth abt 1849 living with them as Lodgers.
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
I'm getting as confused as you are, it's John as head in '51 and Joshua in'61 but both around the same age.
Josh snr's occupation is hard to read but looks like Clothes of Engines,
Have a look at the 1881 census on the Family search Josh is living in Bramhall, a much better area of Stockport. So had he inherited some money by then?
I can't find anything of Catherine earlier than 1871 there is a death on BMD died aged 70 in 1877.
Regards,
Pat.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 20 April 06 11:15 BST (UK) by copyright_editor »
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Carson, Stockport, Clowes/Clews, Stockport Mollard, Wilmslow, Handforth, Darlington, Cheadle, Cheshire Shanley, Cheshire and Ireland Quinn, Ireland, Stoke on Trent and Stockport Bowden, Stockport, Rooking, Addingham, Yorkshire Flannigan/ Flannagan, Macclesfield and Stockport Census information is Crown Copyright from, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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