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Topic: Stuck - looking for ideas (Read 977 times)
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allans
RootsChat Member
Posts: 123
Public Tree on Ancestry
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(also posted on Northumberland)
On the 1851 census Ann Lee Prudhoe, widow, has 2 sons
John Lee Prudhoe
William Lee Prudhoe
Both their birth certs are registered by their mother and no fathers name is given.
There is the following Marriage entry in St Andrew's PC, Newcastle 30/8/1835
William Prudhoe of this parish
Ann Lee of this parish by banns
both marked
witness George Liddle - marked
Elizabeth Thompson - marked
William's MC gives William Lee Prudhoe as his father
John's MC gives Robert Lee Prudhoe as his father
Marriage entry in PR St Mary's Church, Gateshead 10/2/1867 -
John Lee Prudhoe, 21, Batchelor, Glassmaker
son of Robert Lee Prudhoe, Glassmaker, 20 Hopper St
Hannah Wilson, 19, Spinster, John Wilson, Blacksmith, 11 Leonard's Court
He signed, she marked
Witness WIlliam Lee Prudhow - marked
Elizabeth Dyer - marked
Where do I go from here?
Anyone got access to bastardy records?
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Tweedie, Garnett, Smith - !!!, Fearnley,
Bennetts, Waterhouse, Horobin, Tranter
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2624
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Allan,
So Ann Lee marries William Prudhoe in Newcastle on 30 Aug 1835.
10 years later the birth of a John Lee Prudhoe is registered within Gateshead Registration District, recording no father.
(Sept Qtr 1845)
Also within Gateshead, in Dec Qtr, 1848. the birth of a William Prudhoe is registered.
Census 1851 for Winlaton, ( Piece 2403 Folio 183 Page 26) shows widow Ann Prudhoe with 5 yr old John and 3 yr old William.
Marriage of Ann Prudhoe/Robert Gray registered June Qtr 1856 in Gateshead RD
( OK ...None of this news to you)
But when John Lee Prudhoe marries Hannah Wilson in Gateshead on10 Feb 1867, his father is recorded as
Robert LEE Prudhoe.
Does the middle name "LEE" also appear on William's marriage record, for both him and his father, William Prudhoe.
It seems strange that these Prudhoe seniors, carry as a second/middle name, the same name as the maiden name of their wive/partner.
Maybe it indicates that officials did not accurately record the marriage info ?
As Geoff suggests, the answer lies within the Census 1841 info. (sorry I have no access to 1841)
Michael Dixon,
Blyth, Northumberland
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
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DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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allans
RootsChat Member
Posts: 123
Public Tree on Ancestry
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I concur with everything Helen says
There is no definite tie with '41 couple.
There is a long gapfrom '35 marriage to the 2 boys on the '51.
A search for other children may add something.
MC for GRAY would also have her parents names
thus, irrespective of her saying she is a widow, will indicate her surname at birth
and hence if she was married to Prudhoe or was a Prudhoe herself
out of curiosity - tried IGI search - complete blank
Other pssibility is to check Hexham, her place of origin.
Or as i started - anyone got access to bastardy records - how was she getting an income after the botys beirth to her marriage to GRAY.
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Logged
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Tweedie, Garnett, Smith - !!!, Fearnley,
Bennetts, Waterhouse, Horobin, Tranter
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2624
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Allans,
Did "Bastardy Records" exist in England in mid C19th ?
As far as I know, illegitimate children were baptised/registered etc, the same as illegitimate ones.
Michael Dixon
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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(also posted on Northumberland)
Marriage entry in PR St Mary's Church, Gateshead 10/2/1867 -
John Lee Prudhoe, 21, Batchelor, Glassmaker
son of Robert Lee Prudhoe, Glassmaker, 20 Hopper St
Hannah Wilson, 19, Spinster, John Wilson, Blacksmith, 11 Leonard's Court
Can anyone with access to 1861 census find a Robert Lee Prudhoe with son John Lee Prudhoe (aged about 15)?
If so that would prove this is a different John Lee Prudhoe.
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2624
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Allans,
The use of a maternal surname as a child's middle name also occurs regularly in Northumberland and Durham ( and very probably in other places too)
But I was not referring to the Prudhoe children having their mother's maiden surname as a second name.
In your original posting, you had their father(s) also having that same maternal surname as a middle name ?
In affect you were saying that the Prudhoe male(s) who married/partnered Ann LEE, either took her LEE name as a middle name or had it from the start ??
Look at the second paragraph of your original query where you write....
" William's MC gives William LEE Prudhoe as his father.
John's MC gives Robert LEE Prudhoe as his father"
Michael Dixon
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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marilyn-b
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
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Hi,
Just found these postings whilst doing a general search for the surname Prudhoe, which is my direct line.
I am almost sure that the family you mention are my great great grandfather's relatives.
His name was Edward Prudhoe, born 1814 in Blaydon, and his parents were Edward and Ann (maiden name Dodds)
Edward and Ann's children included (along with my great great grandfather), John (born1803), William (born 1806), Thomas (born 1809) and Mary (born 1811).
On the 1851 census, Edward and John are both living in Blaydon Staith with their respective families, and the family you have mentioned (Ann, now widowed, and her two sons John Lee and William) are also living in Blaydon Staith.
On the 1871 census, John Lee Prudhoe and my great great grandfather Edward are still living a few houses apart from each other. William, John Lee's brother married a Yorkshire girl and is living there with his family.
As the last post in this thread was submitted last year, I hope that you will see this entry, as we obviously must share the same ancestry and it would be interesting to compare notes.
Marilyn
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Prudhoe-Blaydon,Durham; Williams-Harlech, Wales; Godfrey-Liverpool; Blamey-Dartmouth, Devon; Hansen-Odense, Denmark; Evans-Liverpool; Blair-Carlisle;
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