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Author
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Topic: Which Madeley? (Read 241 times)
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jillruss
RootsChat Aristocrat
 Offline
Posts: 1971
Gt Gt Grandfather Shepherd 1827-1910
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I've just found my greatx2 grandparents JOSEPH and ELIZABETH STUBBS on the 1841 census in Longford near Moreton Say, Shropshire. Elizabeth's maiden name was SIMON (lots of spelling variations!).
Lodging with them are THOMAS and GEORGE SIMON aged 25 and 23 respectively and both born in Shrops.
I've found them on the IGI, both born in Moreton Say to THOMAS and Elizabeth SIMON.
I think I've found my greatx2 grandmother Elizabeth's baptism on the IGI in 1816 in Moreton Say - but it just says her mother is Mary ( no surname, but I assume illegitimate).
I'm trying to establish the connection between Elizabeth and her lodgers - are they cousins, or are they her brothers?
Looking for the boys' father - Thomas - the only one I can come up with was baptised in MADELEY, SHROPSHIRE in 1786. And he had a sister MARY, baptised 1782 who could possibly be my Elizabeth's mother! Exciting, I thought.
But I'm from Yorkshire - so I had to look Madeley up on the map. There is a Madeley, Shropshire which is miles away from Moreton Say - and there's a Madeley, Staffordshire which is just up the road from Moreton Say - albeit across the border!
Now I'm totally confused! Does anyone know if the Madeley in Staffs was ever in Shrops? Or am I barking up the wrong tree and finding connections where there aren't any?
Can anyone help- please!
Jill
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Logged
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See Surname Interests Table +
Major brickwalls:
John Frith mge to Fanny, Bucks? c 1798
Bathsheba Boothroyd bp W Yks c1802
John Bishop bp E Yks c1758
Joseph Symonds mg to Sarah, prob Berks c 1735-40
John Horwood mg to Martha, Berks c 1735-40
Sarah Sculler bp Berks area c 1675
Paul Phillips bp Berks/Bucks c 1720
William Newell bp Berks/Bucks/Oxon c 1765
Richard Troughton mg to Jane, Westmoreland c 1732
Mary Simon bp Shrops c.1795
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Lloydy
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3309
Great Grandfather John Lewis
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Hi Jilll
I am sure you are aware that the IGI is great for searching for ancestors, but you would need to check the films for accuracy.
Post 1837, Madeley in Staffordshire came under the Newcastle-under-Lyme registration district:
Registration County : Staffordshire
Created : 1.7.1837.
Sub-districts : Audley; Newcastle under Lyme; Whitmore.
GRO volumes : XVII (1837-51); 6b (1852-1930).
Parishes in Staffordshire (1837-1930):
Audley, Balterley, Betley, Bignall End, Chapel and Hill Chorlton, Clayton (from 1896), Eardley May, Halmer End, Hardings Wood, Keele, Knowl End, Madeley, Maer, Newcastle under Lyme, Onnely, Park End, Talke o'th'Hill, Whitmore.
Registers now in Newcastle under Lyme district.
If Thomas was indeed baptised in Madeley, Staffordshire then a look up at the Archives would be most useful!!!!! The parish registers for Madeley are held at the following:
Address
Staffordshire Record Office
Eastgate Street
Stafford
ST16 2LZ
By telephone:
(+44) 01785-278379
Archive enquiries
(+44) 01785-278373 Appointments
(+44) 01785-278380
Admin enquiries
By minicom: (+44) 01785-278376
By fax: (+44) 01785-278384
By email: staffordshire.record.officeATstaffordshire.gov.uk (replace AT with @)
I'm sure a Rootschatter will be able to help you on the Staffordshire Board 
For what it's worth, and this is only my opinion  , I think that there is a strong possibility that Thomas' baptism is a transcription error. I'm probably completely wrong 
Jan
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The fantastic restoration and colour of my Avatar picture was done by Rootschatter PolldollAshton, Beaton/Betton, Bennett, Breese/Breeze, Crisp, Chandler, Challenor/Challinor, Crisp, Davies, Hudson, James, Jarman, Jenkins, Jones, Lewis, Mills, Owen, Owens, Richards, Simon & Trow - My Welsh ancestors from Montgomeryshire.
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Gardener
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1484
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Hi Jill
i thought it might be worth looking at the other census years to see where Thomas and George Simon said they were born.
1871 George Simon b Smithmore,Salop 1817 living Hanley,Staffs
1861 George Simon b Moreton,Shrops living Hanley,Staffs
1851 George Simon b 1815 Morton,Salop living Shelton,Staffs
1861 Thomas Simon b 1819 Smaythmore,Salop living Doveridge,Derbys
(Smythemoor is just south of Moreton Say)
This family might do for parents of George and Thomas
1851
Moreton Say
Thomas Simon,head,m,60,ag lab,Salop,Hodnet
Elizabeth ditto,wife,m,65,Salop,Moreton Say
Joseph ditto,son,m,28,ditto
Mary ditto,d in l,m,39,ditto
Jane ditto,neice?,8,ditto
Hanah ditto,4,ditto,ditto
HO107/1996-22
1841
Moreton Say
Thomas Simon,45,ag lab,y
Elizabeth ditto,50,y
Joseph ditto,18,y
James,ditto,15,y
HO107/900/2 fol 7
Thomas might be the son of John and Mary b Hodnet 1793
Not sure where I am heading with all this but it seeems to me you will have your work cut out making sure you have the right folk 
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 Rose (Black Country),Downs (Black Country),Wolloxall (any and all),Bark (Derbyshire),Wright (Derbyshire),Marsden (Derbyshire), Wallace (Black Country) All census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jillruss
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1971
Gt Gt Grandfather Shepherd 1827-1910
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This is all very helpful - thanks Gardener and Lloydy.
I had just ( about 1 hour ago) found Thomas and family on the 1841 and 1851 censuses in Moreton Say (Longford/Smythmoor) - so I think the Madeley Thomas Simon has bitten the dust, as 'my' Thomas definetly does give his birthplace as Hodnet on the 1851!!
As you say, Gardener, Thomas and his family are the only Simons in the area and just up the road from my Elizabeth (now Stubbs, but indexed on the 1841 as Stubber and on the 1851 as Shaker - makes you marvel how we ever find them!!) and her family. In all the censuses I've found her on, she is consistent with her age ( born c. 1816) and her birthplace - Moreton Say. So, I don't think she's one and the same as Thomas' daughter Eliza, baptised in 1824.
The only baptism I could find for my Elizabeth in Moreton Say is in 1816 to Mary - no surname on IGI but I've managed to get a copy of the PR and Mary is named as Mary Simon, a servant from what looks like Smith Moor (Smythmoor?)! Elizabeth's father has been named as Samuel Taylor and then a half hearted attempt has been made to cross out his name! Curiouser and curiouser!!!
My next theory was that Thomas had a sister called Mary who perhaps died young and he and his wife (married in Moreton Say in 1816) brought Elizabeth up as theirs. Which would be great if I could find any siblings of the Thomas Simon baptised in Hodnet in 1793, son of John Simon and Mary - but, I can't!!
Thanks again for your help and any other advice would be appreciated.
Jill
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Logged
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See Surname Interests Table +
Major brickwalls:
John Frith mge to Fanny, Bucks? c 1798
Bathsheba Boothroyd bp W Yks c1802
John Bishop bp E Yks c1758
Joseph Symonds mg to Sarah, prob Berks c 1735-40
John Horwood mg to Martha, Berks c 1735-40
Sarah Sculler bp Berks area c 1675
Paul Phillips bp Berks/Bucks c 1720
William Newell bp Berks/Bucks/Oxon c 1765
Richard Troughton mg to Jane, Westmoreland c 1732
Mary Simon bp Shrops c.1795
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Gardener
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1484
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In all the censuses I've found her on, she is consistent with her age ( born c. 1816) and her birthplace - Moreton Say. So, I don't think she's one and the same as Thomas' daughter Eliza, baptised in 1824.
The only baptism I could find for my Elizabeth in Moreton Say is in 1816 to Mary - no surname on IGI but I've managed to get a copy of the PR and Mary is named as Mary Simon, a servant from what looks like Smith Moor (Smythmoor?)! Elizabeth's father has been named as Samuel Taylor and then a half hearted attempt has been made to cross out his name!
it sounds like you are making progress of sorts. The only thing I can think to suggest is that you look at the parish chest material for Moreton Say (if you search the library on familysearch.com then you should find the reference for the original film at Shrewsbury records office, or you could order it to a family history centre if you have one handy).
It might have a record if Elizabeth was illegitimate and Mary knew who the father was then the parish might have tried to get some money off him? Bit of a long shot though and it will depend on what the parish chest material actually contains - sometimes it is not much 
Oh yes, if you can search the PR try looking for other children to Mary - some have more than one as single mothers and may even end up married to the father.
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Rose (Black Country),Downs (Black Country),Wolloxall (any and all),Bark (Derbyshire),Wright (Derbyshire),Marsden (Derbyshire), Wallace (Black Country) All census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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