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Topic: 1841 census look up please. Porteous (Read 657 times)
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jachri
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sorry if I posted this in the wrong area earlier!
Could anyone look up John Porteous in the 1841 census for me? He was married to Isabella Gardner and had a child James born in 1804 Ruthwell Dunfries. Rather a long shot that either of them would still be alive and living in the same area but you never know!
Audrey kindly came up with these two as possible parents for my James Porteous (married in Brampton, Cumbria in about 1836, born somewhere in Scotland) but I don't where she sourced it, so if you read this Audrey could you let me know?
Kind rgds Jane
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Hi Jane
I wonder if this could be them from 1841 FreeCen:
PORTEOUS John, age 65 Potter Dumfries-shire
PORTEOUS Isabella, age 60 Dumfries-shire
PORTEOUS Margaret, age 22 Dumfries-shire
MILLS Adam, age 35 Lodger Ireland Occupation crossed off
Address: Watchhill, Annan-Dumfries-shire
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jachri
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Monica,
Thanks, this does seem a possible match. Annan isn't that far from Ruthwell and the ages are about right. I had an idea that John might have been a husbandryman, but perhpas he turned his hand to pottery too!
If this is the same family, the fact that there is a daughter listed might help me confirm that they are James's parents.
Kind regards
Jane
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Jane
From IGI, these are the children showing for John P and Isabella G.:
ISABELLA PORTEOUS - 28 FEB 1809 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
JANET PORTEOUS - 28 FEB 1811 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
MARGARET PORTEOUS - 27 APR 1817 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
NICHOLAS PORTEOUS - 22 JAN 1800 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
JANNET PORTUS - 09 MAR 1812 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
NICHOLAS PORTOUS - Female 26 JAN 1800 Troqueer, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
ANN PORTEOUS - 05 DEC 1807 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland.
As you can see, they are all girls. The boy births have not been loaded on the on-line IGI data. This can happen. Audrey may have access to the BVRI cd (British Vital Record Index) which is more complete. There is also an entry for the birth of a James P in Ruthwell to those parents (two entries actually) on Scotlands People. I haven't viewed it but can see by the free search option.
The Margaret showing with John and Isabella in the 1841 census would fit the age of that born in 1817.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jachri
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Monica,
I was just looking at the LDS IGI when your message came in. How did you find all those children? I could only come up with the verification of Isabella and John being Margaret's parents. I must be looking in the wrong place.
That is very intesting about only girls being listed, (though don't you think that naming a girl Nicholas is even stranger?!) All those sisters must give me some help matching up James, I just hope I'm not leaping to conclusions that this is the right family, but I suppose this is all part of detective work.
I did visit the Scotlands People website, but couldn't get very far, I think I will buy some cedits to see if I can settle some of these doubts. Fingers crossed James et al are listed in the Parish records,
I thought I would be able to gain access to indexes as in the English system but this doesn't seem possible..unless i'm just being dim!
Thanks again for your help.
Jane x 
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Jane
Firstly, on IGI you can do parent searches to find out what children are showing for any sets of parents. On the IGI page of Family Search, simply fill in the parents names and then GB/Scot. Depending on your results, for example if you get lots of children from couples with the same names, you can then add year ranges/ county. In this case, these are the only children (the six girls) showing for a couple with that name. The source of IGI data as you may know, is either transcriptions of actual records from the OPRs or submitted data by members which can be (very) unreliable. In this case, all the girls' birth entries are actual extracts from the OPRs.
With Scotlands People, you can register without having to buy credits. This lets you carry out free searches. You only pay/use up units to view results. From the free search option, with the surname Port*us and parents John and Isabel* Gard*r, there are 9 entries coming up in Ruthwell between 1795-1820. I imagine these will be the 6 entries for the girls and there are two showing for a James in 1804 (not sure why, maybe birth and christening?). There is still one entry which may be for the christening of Nicholas, 26 Jan 1800 in Troqueer which shows on IGI.
Hope this helps.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jachri
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there again Monica,
That clears up a few things, I thought I must be doing something wrong not to come up with the same details. I did guess that the second entry for Nicholas (I still think that's abit odd!)would be her christening, I might check out the two entries for Janet though, either there was a very long gap between birth and christening (over a year) or else perhaps the first baby died and the second was named after her? though that sounds a bit macabre.
Thanks very much for your help.
Jane
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Jane
With the exception of the two entries for Nicholas (birth/christening), all the other ones are single birth entries. So more likely the first Janet died and they called their next daughter Janet also. Not uncommon, happened a lot in my family, particularly with the name Angus MacDonald for some reason!
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jachri
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Monica,
That seems so sad doesn't it? I suppose a sign of high infant mortality rates of the day.
Well, the search goes on.
Regards
Jane.
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boswells
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 42
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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My great, great grandmother was Isabella Porteous daughter of John Porteous and Isabella Gardener(?) born 28.2.1809 at Ruthwell. She married James Mitchell, farm labourer, whose full family tree from then on I have. Isabella died aged 39 and was probably buried in Kirkpatrick Fleming Churchyard. I would be very interested in going further back into her ancestry and will gladly share what I have with any of my far out relatives.
Alan
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Mitchell, Stodart/Stothart, Armstrong, Porteous (Dumfriesshire), Taylor, Lindsay, Auld, (Ayrshire)
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jachri
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Alan,
Thanks for the message about Isabella Porteous.
I've been trying to track down a birthplace for my Great Great Great Grandfather James Porteous. all I know was that he was a cooper, born in Scotland about 1806 and that his father was called John,also born in Scotland. He married his first wife MaryAnn Lucock in 1836 in Brampton,was widowed in 1841, and married Mary Rennison in 1843. The subsequent family were born in Brampton, Cumbria and later Gateshead, Durham. I've been grasping at straws a little bit and have been looking at possible families that James could have belonged to. I found details of your Great Great Grandmothers family and thought they could be a possibility, as (maybe rather tenuously)James's daughter was called Isabella, that she may have been named after his mother? It does look like that Isabella was quite a popular name at the time however, so I might be completely wrong about this trail!
I've seen from the IGI that your Isabella had lots of sisters, do you know of any brothers called James who perhaps moved to Cumbria? Ruthwell doesn't seem that far away from the border.
It would be fantastic if this was definitely the right connection. I have quite a few details of later family but it would be really interesting to try and go further back!
Keeping my fingers crossed.
Regards
Jane
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boswells
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 42
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jane
Like you I am up against a blank wall at the moment. I will be going up to the Ruthwell area at the beginning of July and will have a look at some of the gravestones the in the hope of getting a lead. In my experience Porteous was not all that common in the border region so maybe if we could get back one or, better still two, generations we might be able to bring it all together.
Although Ruthwell is very near to the Border there seemed to be far fewer moves over than you might have expected.
I will keep at it and post up any findings if they turn up. Meantime many thanks for the interest.
Alan
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Mitchell, Stodart/Stothart, Armstrong, Porteous (Dumfriesshire), Taylor, Lindsay, Auld, (Ayrshire)
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jachri
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 19
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello again Alan,
Good luck with your detecting when you visit Ruthwell. It would be very interesting to hear if you uncover any Porteous links up there.
Have you looked up The Porteous Associates web page? They have the details of many Porteous families, and though they seem to be more focused on the migration of the family name overseas, they are a font of knowledge historically. You can even order a book about the Porteous story! Although I had already researched some of my family name, this was helpful in filling some of the gaps...unfortunately only up to the point I have told you about though.
I too will post any more findings in case they help you.
Thanks again.
Jane:)
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