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Topic: Walter Snook & Ruth Hawkins (Read 568 times)
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, and greetings from the Hampshire Forum! I started a thread there a few weeks ago which has borne a tremendous amount of fruit, but I need to skip over the border to attempt to resolve a family mystery.
My wife's grandfather, Walter Martell Snook (b.Lymington 1887), was still in Hampshire on Census night 1901, but family wisdom has it that he obtained a job as gardener at Ashburnham House nr.Battle later that year. The next we know of him for sure was a marriage back in Hampshire in 1925, where he describes himself as widower. Neither his daughter nor any other living relative has a clue about his first marriage.
There is circumstantial evidence, however, of some sort of relationship with a girl called Ruth Hawkins, possibly from Hastings - and rumours of a wedding, followed by her death in childbirth. I know nothing solid about her except that she had a brother called Sam.
I can see a birth record for a Hastings girl of that name in 1883 - any chance anyone can find any other records that demonstrate the existence of Sam, any marriage data or a death, possibly as Ruth Snook? Since W.M. Snook claimed he was in the Royal Engineers during the war but his name isn't on the Roll of Honour at Ashburnham, we assume his time with Ruth - if it ever happened! - was before 1914.
Thanks in anticipation.
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gougy
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
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The only Samuel I can see for Hastings around the right time is..
Births Sep Q 1873 - Hastings - Vol 2b page 14
Samuel Henry Hawkins
Think this is him in 1881...
1881 census - Guestling SSX
RG11 - 1021 / 121 - p.7
Friars Hill
George H. HAWKINS Head 34 Carpenter Guestling
Jane HAWKINS Wife 35 Halton
George HAWKINS Son 9 Scholar Guestling
Samuel HAWKINS Son 8 Scholar Guestling
Ridley HAWKINS Son 6 Scholar Guestling
In the 1901 index there is a Ruth Hawkins age 17 born Guestling living in the civil parish of Ashburnham  . A 1891/1901 look-up might confirm if it's the same family.
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Sussex: Lishers of Sompting, Cunninghams of Houghton, Hammonds of Angmering, Humphrey, Hambleton, Ayling, Pope, Gent London: Le Franc, Watson, Read Cornwall: Phillips of St. Ives, Chappells of Penwith Ireland: O'Connors of Co. Clare Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks - this is looking extremely promising.
So if they were both at or very near Ashburnham, they might have been married at Ashburnham church. I couldn't find an entry on the BMD registers (but then I've hardly ever found any marriages on there!!) but does anybody have any other access to the local records??
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm making some progress here - via a separate source I now know there was a marriage (Battle, presumably Ashburnham) in the Dec quarter 1915 between Walter Martell Snook and Ruth Hawkins (vol 2b 101).
However, any further information is strangely lacking. If he was a widower as he claimed when he remarried in 1925, then Ruth Snook nee Hawkins ought by rights to have died between 1915 and 1925 - but I can't find any record of such an event at all. Whether that leaves us with a rare (for its time and for working class people) divorcee, a bigamist, a murderer or just a perfectly innocent missing or elusive record, I haven't a clue. He was a devout "chapel" man later in life, so I'm certainly not erring towards the scandalous quite yet!
Please can you suggest how I might obtain such information given the scanty data I currently have?
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Andrea,
Yes, I think we have the right family. I've tried as many "easy" routes as I can through BMD, but I haven't had the time or inclination yet to trawl through all the complete indexes. It was only yesterday that we found the 1915 marriage - at least I should be down to 40 pages now. I was hoping there might be an easier (and still free!) way to find a death.
Thanks for the additional confirmation from 1891 - though not sure why George has changed from carpenter to painter, only to end up in the timberyard at Ashburnham in 1901.
Cheers,
Brian
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've now done the additional trawl of the 1915-1925 deaths. The only close-ish record I can find is Ruth Snook d.Mar 1924 at Thakeham, W.Sussex, aged 39. The date doesn't quite match (she should have been 40-41) and the location isn't conclusive - though W.Sussex is not impossible. Mother-in-law recalls that her father worked for Sir Hugh Allen (famous musician) but I can find nothing to suggest he ever lived in Sussex.
Is there no way of finding this Ruth Snook's maiden name and place of birth other than looking at the death certificate itself?
And if it turns out not to be the same person, what inferences do I draw about Walter Snook's widowhood??
I've also trawled through the births of the same period (Snook, maiden name Hawkins) but found zilch. Not that I was expecting any offspring...
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Andrea,
Just to let you know I've done exactly what you suggested. For the record, in case anyone else is interested, the fee was £7, but the cheque will be returned if the searcher is satisfied that it's not the right person.
I can't believe I've finally had to spend some money - is this the start of the slippery slope??
Cheers,
Brian
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bearkat
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3891
Census Info. is Crown Copyright, from www.national
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I can't believe I've finally had to spend some money - is this the start of the slippery slope??
You've done well to get this far without having to pay out. It gets to be an expensive hobby. Rootschat definitely helps keep costs down though.
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Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
South Stoneham, Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD
Beaulieu/Boldre, Hants - WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING
Kent - BAYLY, BORERr, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Hert - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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So is there a Genealogists Anonymous I need to join right away?
Andrea, if your exotic location turns out to be Ashburnham, can you take a look in the burial registers for me please? 
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bearkat
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3891
Census Info. is Crown Copyright, from www.national
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So is there a Genealogists Anonymous I need to join right away?
I shouldn't think the ONS would allow it - they're making too much money from us.
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Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
South Stoneham, Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD
Beaulieu/Boldre, Hants - WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING
Kent - BAYLY, BORERr, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Hert - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
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B.E.
RootsChat Member
Posts: 127
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello everybody,
This thread may be coming to its natural end now, but I'd appreciate any insights into the following...
I now have a copy of Ruth Snook's death certificate - they've charged me the seven quid, but I'm still not entirely sure what story it actually tells...
Her death occurred at The Pines, Thakeham 12/3/1924 and was reported by HW Fry, the occupier of The Pines. Ruth is described as "Of Thakeham RD. Wife of Walter Snook, a farmer". Now he was never a farmer as far as we know; he was a gardener, latterly a market gardener. Nor, do we think, was Ruth 39 when she died as stated on the certificate; more like 41.
Were the informants of deaths only asked their opinions about the details of the deceased rather than having to provide any suppporting documentation?
Does it sound to you as though Ruth and Walter were no longer living together?
Is it possible to infer from the wording whether Ruth was a servant and/or mistress of said HW Fry?
Anyone know anything about Mr Fry or The Pines?
Cheers,
Brian
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gougy
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
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Hi, this might be of interest re: death certs...
]
[url]http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/deaths.htm[/url]
Farmer/market gardener?? Not dissimilar occupations - perhaps that's what Ruth had told Mr Fry.
"Were the informants of deaths only asked their opinions about the details of the deceased rather than having to provide any suppporting documentation?"
That's right as far as I know. So a landlord or employer is less likely to give accurate info than a relative.
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Sussex: Lishers of Sompting, Cunninghams of Houghton, Hammonds of Angmering, Humphrey, Hambleton, Ayling, Pope, Gent London: Le Franc, Watson, Read Cornwall: Phillips of St. Ives, Chappells of Penwith Ireland: O'Connors of Co. Clare Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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