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Author Topic: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent  (Read 1423 times)
FIFI
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 07 June 06 21:25 UTC (UK) »
Hi
Not sure if this will help or if you have this info

marriage of Robert Penfold & Mary Ann Saunders

10th May 1881 at Holy Saviours Church Croydon know then as St.Saviours
Roberts  was 21 his farther John Penfold was decd living at 4 Holly Cottages, Pawsons Road.
Mary Ann Saunders age 18 farther William Saunders Hawker also at Holly Cottages Wittiness Noah & Janet Warne also it was bans not license.
(Janet would be trainet)

I have other Penfold marriage details i.e Rose Roberts daughter  and a couple of others if you would like then let me know.
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Cooper & Williams Norwood & Croydon (Gipsies)
Mills Mitcham & Croydon (Gipsies)
Gomm Croydon,Streatham,Chalfont st Petera
Bulgin Surrey & Kent
robbyd
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #16 on: Monday 03 July 06 10:19 UTC (UK) »
Hi Fifi

Sorry it's taken so long to reply but l have been away on holiday, yes l would love any further info you may have.

Many Thanks & Kind Regards


Robert
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coopers pup
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 11 February 07 19:39 UTC (UK) »
to fifi
I lived at 9 Wilford road until 1963 my grandparents were Harriet (Tiny) and James Cooper both in Queens Road old Tom and Harry Penfold lived at no 15 before the war there were over 80 dwellings after only 16! I have many memories which include all the residents its a pity that they should become lost
Quote from: FIFI on Wednesday 07 June 06 12:19 UTC (UK)
Hi Robert

I see from the transcript of the 1861 census of Hampton Wick that Casalguidi gave you, that the Grandson was born in Norwood. At about this time there were a family of Coopers one of the children of Robert Cooper went of to marry a Susan Penfold who was a widower at time.

After a while a few travelers settled in Croydon which is quite near and once again Penfold and Cooper Families are to be found around Wilford Road and Forster Road and a few buried in Queens Road cemetery.

With regards to the Romany & Travelers Family History Site it is worth a look at the links page from there you can go to Passing Through and also a link to Liverpool University site where they have a large collection of Romany details.

Hope this is of some help

Fifi
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coopers pup
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 11 February 07 19:48 UTC (UK) »
To FIFI
it is still S.Saviours Church I was christened there by the Rev Field it used to have a school next door now demolished the head was a skilled artist
quote author=FIFI link=topic=159598.msg754923#msg754923 date=1149715554]
Hi
Not sure if this will help or if you have this info

marriage of Robert Penfold & Mary Ann Saunders

10th May 1881 at Holy Saviours Church Croydon know then as St.Saviours
Roberts  was 21 his farther John Penfold was decd living at 4 Holly Cottages, Pawsons Road.
Mary Ann Saunders age 18 farther William Saunders Hawker also at Holly Cottages Wittiness Noah & Janet Warne also it was bans not license.
(Janet would be trainet)

I have other Penfold marriage details i.e Rose Roberts daughter  and a couple of others if you would like then let me know.
Quote
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chellin2
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 07 August 07 15:07 UTC (UK) »
Hi Coopers

Noah Warne was my great great uncle, his sister Mary Ann was my great great grandmother.

His Wife Janet was sometimes Arienet, Trancett and Trainett.

I have a few Penfolds in my tree and I found a site with a lot of them in giving their baptisms, marriages and deaths.

Its http://Romany.rootschat.net/

Hope this helps.

Does anyone know if the name Warne is Romany or would it be Warren/Warn/Warne as I am getting different spellings.

Chellin2
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vimira
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 07 August 07 15:54 UTC (UK) »
Hi everyone

Mention of the Coopers & the Croyden area makes me ask if anyone knows of the Mills family who married a number of Cooper girls.

I am trying to trace my 3 x gt grandfather Robert Mills who married Susannah Harwood/Haywood/Orwood/Allwood. He was the son of Thomas Mills, potter, & he & Susannah m in Newark, Notts in 1838. sadly, Susannah & their son both died in 1842 in Newark, leaving daughter Sarah b 1839 Newark, my 2 x gt grandmother the only survivor it seems of the family. No trace of them in the 1841 census or of Robert afterwards. I have so little to go on that I have been trying to go backwards in time from the census.

Aaron Mills hawker  b c 1849 m Flora Cooper d/o Robert & Sylvia Cooper; William Mills m Sophia Cooper, & Moses Mills m Margaret Cooper, & in 1871 & later censuses they are in the Croydon area.

Does anyone know anything of this Mills family thru their research on the Coopers. I am having such great diffs with finding Robert & his family, that I would be intersted in any connections which might help.

Vimira
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Elliott Drury Mills Harwood/Haywood Smith Bailey Lincs/Notts/Leics
Lemmey
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Mills
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 15:09 UTC (UK) »
Hi

Not sure if you already have this information.

1881 census - Half Acre Row, Mitchum Surrey

PRO Ref RGll Piece 827 Folio 66? Page 8

Aaron MILLS  1831 Hawker     
Mary A MILLS 1833 wife
George MILLS1861 son
William MILLS 1863 s
Aaron MILLS 1870 s
Susan MILLS 1873 daughter

Eli MILLS 1854 Hawker
Jane MILLS 1853 wife
Jane MILLS 1874 d
Eli MILLS 1877 s
John A MILLS 1879 s
Aaron MILLS s

PRO Ref RGll Piece 827 Folio 67 Page 11

Joseph MILLS 1818 Widow
Eliza MILLS 1857 Daughter
Susan MILLS 1858 D
Louisa MILLS 1861  D              All of the above Hawkers
Divino MILLS 1867 Son
Henry MILLS 1871 S


(copied from my 1881 spreadsheet compiling other Romanies living where I've found my Gardners/Penfolds etc)
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Croydon, Surrey - KENT, SKILTON, BESLEY, HIGGS
Surrey & Kent - GARDNER, DALLAWAY, STRUDWICK, LANE, PENFOLD (Roma/Traveller)
London - COOKE
Shropshire/Denbighshire/Montgomershire  - FRANCIS, LLOYD
Staffordshire - TOOTH, DEVALL
vimira
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 18:56 UTC (UK) »
Yes thanks - I did have them. I think Joseph m twice; first to Rose ?, secondly to Naomi Franklin. Can't seem to get further back with Joseph, can't find marr certifs - he may have been baptised 1822 Iden Sussex, which seems to fit; and his parents Thomas Mills & Henrietta would fit ok with my Robert whose father is Thomas on his marriage cert.

I think I have to check the orig parish record to see if they were travellers. There are very few entries in IGI for Robert - I'm beginning to think he may have changed his first name, or used Mills as his mother's maiden name. I have seen in some records that they also used Smith.

Does anyone have any early records of the Mills families, I wonder. Robert would have been born c1815 - 1820. He & Susannah's daughter Sarah m my 3 x gt grandfather Francis Elliott who were well estab Gypsies. 2 of Susannah's
siblings also went on to marry Newberrys.

Thanks for your help
Vimira
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Elliott Drury Mills Harwood/Haywood Smith Bailey Lincs/Notts/Leics
chellin2
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 09 August 07 00:08 UTC (UK) »
Hi Vimira

The Smiths that are in the Half Acre Row are my family, did any of your Mills marry any of them.

Phoebe Smith was was grandmother.

Chellin2
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vimira
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 09 August 07 16:43 UTC (UK) »
Hi

I don't know, but I was trying to follow up an Ambrose Mills b 1862 in the 1881 census in Woodford essex, with a brother Galouse Mills, cousin? John Mills, aunt Fambridge Smith, & grandparents Moses & Fanny Smith (RG11/1733 fol 99 p44. Moses & Fanny are with a William Mills & family in Chipping Barnet in 1861 census RG9/788 fol 96 p69. And in 1891 RG12/1362 fol 76 p29 a Golie Smith (same age as Galouse Mills) appears as Moses & Fanny's son.

A birth cert I rec for the right name & age of Ambrose in Hitchin has his parents as John Mills & Selina Draper. So either Fanny was a Mills, or Moses was a Mills, or Selina Draper is d/o Fanny nee Draper?

Vimira
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Elliott Drury Mills Harwood/Haywood Smith Bailey Lincs/Notts/Leics
chellin2
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #25 on: Friday 10 August 07 00:34 UTC (UK) »
Hi Vimira

I will look into this and if I find any of the Smiths married into your family I will let you know.  I would appreciate it if you would do the same - thanks

Good Luck

Chellin2
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vimira
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #26 on: Friday 10 August 07 09:05 UTC (UK) »
Hi

In 18901 Phoebe Cooper is with husband David & family, & her father Moses Mills. FG12/1475 fol 14 p22. I presume they are not in your family - I don't see them om your site. But again another marriage bet Mills & Coopers.

When was your Phoebe Smith born?  Are you certain she was'nt a Mills?

Thanks for looking out for Mills/Smiths connections for me. I will let you know if I turn anything up

Vimira
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Elliott Drury Mills Harwood/Haywood Smith Bailey Lincs/Notts/Leics
vimira
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #27 on: Friday 10 August 07 09:09 UTC (UK) »
Sorry Chellin 2 - I meant Coopers Pup's site
Vimira
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Elliott Drury Mills Harwood/Haywood Smith Bailey Lincs/Notts/Leics
chellin2
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #28 on: Friday 10 August 07 11:18 UTC (UK) »
Hi Vimira

My Phoebe was definitely a Smith and she was born in 1885, parents Josiah Smith and Lementamia Gardiner.

Thanks

Chellin2
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An65
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Re: Penfold in Plaxtol, Kent
« Reply #29 on: Friday 10 August 07 19:02 UTC (UK) »
from a previous message:
"I don't know, but I was trying to follow up an Ambrose Mills b 1862 in the 1881 census in Woodford essex, with a brother Galouse Mills, cousin? John Mills, aunt Fambridge Smith"

I believe Fambridge Smith was one of the daughters of Ambrose Smith married Sanspirella Heron/Hearn. She married Sampson Robinson.

Ambrose Smith was the guy known as Jasper Petulengro (smith) in the George Borrow books. His wife Sanspirella was known as Pokomovna Hearn.
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