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Author
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Topic: 1891 lookup please (Read 181 times)
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Finch
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3305
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Can anybody please help me find a JAMES OLIFF (Olliff, Olliffe, Olive) born about 1880 in Acton. His fathers name is GEORGE. Sorry, I do not have any other information until he married in 1899 in Kensington. Thanks
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FINCH Ickenham, Willesden
BARNES Isleworth, Marylebone
PERRY Marylebone
HEAPS Clerkenwell, Holborn
HOOPER Clerkenwell
FOX Norfolk
VICKERY Bristol, Somerset, Marylebone
WELTON Marylebone, Norfolk, Suffolk
HUMPHRIES Hillingdon, Surrey
SLADE Uxbridge
DELL Uxbridge
PLUMB Suffolk
BROOKS Bladon, Ox
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Wocky
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 41
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've noticed that you've requested look ups for this person before without success, although for other census years I'm sure anybody helping would have tried other years too. For the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses I've had a check but am unable to find him so thought I'd make a suggestion that you might find useful.
The GRO ( www.gro.gov.uk ) undertake a three consecutive year search using the years and criteria that you specify at a cost of £11.50. Could it be a good idea to ask them to undertake this search for this gentleman and using the criteria of father's name George to get the birth certificate.
This could be of threefold benefits to you as it will provide the mother's name, confirm his birthdate (in case he was under age at marriage and lied about it) and also give an address where they were living.
Hope this is of help to you.
Wocky
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Finch
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3305
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Hi Wocky,
Yes, I have tried in the London area but thought I'd give it a go in Middlesex as Acton would come under that area. If I don't have any luck I think I will have to go for the Birth certificate. Thanks for your help.
Regards, Joan
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FINCH Ickenham, Willesden
BARNES Isleworth, Marylebone
PERRY Marylebone
HEAPS Clerkenwell, Holborn
HOOPER Clerkenwell
FOX Norfolk
VICKERY Bristol, Somerset, Marylebone
WELTON Marylebone, Norfolk, Suffolk
HUMPHRIES Hillingdon, Surrey
SLADE Uxbridge
DELL Uxbridge
PLUMB Suffolk
BROOKS Bladon, Ox
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'Tricia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 10320
Edith Gent Bowskill
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Hi Joan
Did you ever trace this man???
Tricia 
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Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk******************************************************** Nottinghamshire,Bulwell: Bowskill, Everley, Gent, Haywood, Houghton, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire, Mansfield:- Baxter Buckinghamshire: Charlesworth, Fowler Derbyshire:Brimington:- Adams, Baxter London: Bird, Charlesworth, Coleman, Desmoulins, Everard, Jarman, Quinton, Richards Italy: Gioffredi |
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Finch
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3305
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Hi Tricia,
No, I never traced him in 1891. I have him in 1899 when he married, living at 46 Sterling Road, Acton and also in 1901 living at 29 Kenley Street, Kensington. I have his marriage cert. which gives his father's name as George.
Regards, Joan
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FINCH Ickenham, Willesden
BARNES Isleworth, Marylebone
PERRY Marylebone
HEAPS Clerkenwell, Holborn
HOOPER Clerkenwell
FOX Norfolk
VICKERY Bristol, Somerset, Marylebone
WELTON Marylebone, Norfolk, Suffolk
HUMPHRIES Hillingdon, Surrey
SLADE Uxbridge
DELL Uxbridge
PLUMB Suffolk
BROOKS Bladon, Ox
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'Tricia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 10320
Edith Gent Bowskill
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You will have to be very patient and bear with me - I have a theory 
Just before I make a fool of myself  do you have any Oliff witnesses on that cert and does George have an occupation
Tricia
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Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk******************************************************** Nottinghamshire,Bulwell: Bowskill, Everley, Gent, Haywood, Houghton, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire, Mansfield:- Baxter Buckinghamshire: Charlesworth, Fowler Derbyshire:Brimington:- Adams, Baxter London: Bird, Charlesworth, Coleman, Desmoulins, Everard, Jarman, Quinton, Richards Italy: Gioffredi |
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Finch
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Posts: 3305
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Hi Tricia,
Sorry for the delay, had to reboot my computer.
The witnesses were a MARY SULLIVAN and a MARY WALSH.
The fathers occupation was a labourer.
Thanks for looking.
Regards, Joan
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FINCH Ickenham, Willesden
BARNES Isleworth, Marylebone
PERRY Marylebone
HEAPS Clerkenwell, Holborn
HOOPER Clerkenwell
FOX Norfolk
VICKERY Bristol, Somerset, Marylebone
WELTON Marylebone, Norfolk, Suffolk
HUMPHRIES Hillingdon, Surrey
SLADE Uxbridge
DELL Uxbridge
PLUMB Suffolk
BROOKS Bladon, Ox
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'Tricia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 10320
Edith Gent Bowskill
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1891
8 Winchester Place, Park Road E, Acton
Frederick Holliff Head 32 M General Lab b North Hyde Bucks
James Holliff son 12 b Acton Middlesex
Harry Holliff son 16 b Hampshire
RG12/1037 Folio 6 Page 6
WRONG - I hear someone shout
But, what if this information has been incorrectly recorded - for whatever reason and just maybe these guys are brothers. After all Frederick would only have been 16 when he fathered Harry. Not impossible I suppose but.....
Now, what if we compare it with this entry on 1881 - and I have seen stranger things
1881
Osbourne Terrace Acton
RG11/1355 Folio 29 Page 51
I know it's not perfect and the ages for Fredrick and Henry are a couple of years out but nobody else has come up with an alternative in a couple of years SO the decision is yours
Henry's birthplace is Hampstead on one and Hampshire on the other - works for me 
Tricia
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Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk******************************************************** Nottinghamshire,Bulwell: Bowskill, Everley, Gent, Haywood, Houghton, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire, Mansfield:- Baxter Buckinghamshire: Charlesworth, Fowler Derbyshire:Brimington:- Adams, Baxter London: Bird, Charlesworth, Coleman, Desmoulins, Everard, Jarman, Quinton, Richards Italy: Gioffredi |
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Finch
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3305
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Hi Tricia,
That's incredible, I don't know how you do it, I couldn't even find them in 1881. I don't know how to thank you. This has to be them, there's too many similarities for it not to be.
If it wouldn't be too much trouble, do you think you could send me the name of the daughter and where she was born, also where George, Frederick and Ely where born, I can't quite make it out on the census.
This will give me something to work with now.
Regards, Joan
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FINCH Ickenham, Willesden
BARNES Isleworth, Marylebone
PERRY Marylebone
HEAPS Clerkenwell, Holborn
HOOPER Clerkenwell
FOX Norfolk
VICKERY Bristol, Somerset, Marylebone
WELTON Marylebone, Norfolk, Suffolk
HUMPHRIES Hillingdon, Surrey
SLADE Uxbridge
DELL Uxbridge
PLUMB Suffolk
BROOKS Bladon, Ox
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'Tricia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 10320
Edith Gent Bowskill
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I have been playing around with these people for ages trying to verify them for you. Can't find a baptism record for James Oliffe from 1878 to 1881on complete BMD but he may well be mistranscribed on there as well.
These people were transcribed as Cliffe and they appear on another census as Cliffe - I'll try and spot that one again for you.
This is how I see it
Frederick and Eli/Ely born Shepperd's Bush
Sophia dau born Buckinghamshire - there is a birth in FeeBMD but is a bit out - don't think any of them knew how old they were or where they were born
George Senior and Hannah born Bucks and I think on the other census says quite clearly Aylsbury*
Other George looks like Drayton Middlesex
* perhaps not - not 1871 anyway
Tricia
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Logged
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Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk******************************************************** Nottinghamshire,Bulwell: Bowskill, Everley, Gent, Haywood, Houghton, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire, Mansfield:- Baxter Buckinghamshire: Charlesworth, Fowler Derbyshire:Brimington:- Adams, Baxter London: Bird, Charlesworth, Coleman, Desmoulins, Everard, Jarman, Quinton, Richards Italy: Gioffredi |
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'Tricia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 10320
Edith Gent Bowskill
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See what I mean about the birth places -whether they are Cliffe's or Oliffe's they still don't know where they were born
1871
George's Yard Gospel Oak Grove, St Pancras
RG10/ 242 Folio 52 Page 20
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Logged
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Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk******************************************************** Nottinghamshire,Bulwell: Bowskill, Everley, Gent, Haywood, Houghton, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire, Mansfield:- Baxter Buckinghamshire: Charlesworth, Fowler Derbyshire:Brimington:- Adams, Baxter London: Bird, Charlesworth, Coleman, Desmoulins, Everard, Jarman, Quinton, Richards Italy: Gioffredi |
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Finch
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3305
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Hi Tricia,
Thanks for the 1871 census, it was a lot clearer.
I suppose Eliza must have died.
I suppose it depends on who is giving the information as to how accurate it is, I was reading somewhere that sometimes the children or even the neighbours gave the info. to the enumerator.
Regards, Joan
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Logged
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FINCH Ickenham, Willesden
BARNES Isleworth, Marylebone
PERRY Marylebone
HEAPS Clerkenwell, Holborn
HOOPER Clerkenwell
FOX Norfolk
VICKERY Bristol, Somerset, Marylebone
WELTON Marylebone, Norfolk, Suffolk
HUMPHRIES Hillingdon, Surrey
SLADE Uxbridge
DELL Uxbridge
PLUMB Suffolk
BROOKS Bladon, Ox
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'Tricia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 10320
Edith Gent Bowskill
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Oooh, Joan - is this the verification we are looking for
1891
Wormwood Scrubs Prison, Hammersmith
Eli Oliffe 24 Gas Stoker b Hammersmith
Male Prisoner
RG12/ 44 Folio 149 Page 15
Tricia
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Logged
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Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk******************************************************** Nottinghamshire,Bulwell: Bowskill, Everley, Gent, Haywood, Houghton, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire, Mansfield:- Baxter Buckinghamshire: Charlesworth, Fowler Derbyshire:Brimington:- Adams, Baxter London: Bird, Charlesworth, Coleman, Desmoulins, Everard, Jarman, Quinton, Richards Italy: Gioffredi |
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'Tricia
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 10320
Edith Gent Bowskill
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I'll be back later - have to dash to shops
Tricia
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Logged
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Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk******************************************************** Nottinghamshire,Bulwell: Bowskill, Everley, Gent, Haywood, Houghton, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire, Mansfield:- Baxter Buckinghamshire: Charlesworth, Fowler Derbyshire:Brimington:- Adams, Baxter London: Bird, Charlesworth, Coleman, Desmoulins, Everard, Jarman, Quinton, Richards Italy: Gioffredi |
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Finch
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3305
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OK Tricia, don't spend too much
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Logged
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FINCH Ickenham, Willesden
BARNES Isleworth, Marylebone
PERRY Marylebone
HEAPS Clerkenwell, Holborn
HOOPER Clerkenwell
FOX Norfolk
VICKERY Bristol, Somerset, Marylebone
WELTON Marylebone, Norfolk, Suffolk
HUMPHRIES Hillingdon, Surrey
SLADE Uxbridge
DELL Uxbridge
PLUMB Suffolk
BROOKS Bladon, Ox
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