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Topic: Owen and Thomas Collins County Monaghan!! (Read 926 times)
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am trying to find Thomas Collins born 1841 in County Monaghan, his fathers name was Owen Collins on marriage certificate.
Thomas Collins married Mary Ann Duffy in 1866 in Blackhill County Durham.
Trying to find information on where in Monaghan Thomas and his father Owen came from, would also like to find mothers name and siblings.
Patrick Collins brother of Thomas' s son also called Thomas born 1885 in Durham
died in Ypres, Belgium?
A leaflet published by Deorwenta Publcations, Blackhill, Co
Durham (St. Mary's War Memorial) and it reads as follows:
'5332 Patrick Collins DCM Age 27: P Collins, one of twelve children, was a
son of Thomas Collins, originally from Co. Monaghan, Ireland and Mary Anne
Collins, neé Duffy, from Berwick on Tweed, whose family came from Co Armagh,
Ireland. Patrick was born on 15 July 1889 and the family lived at 29
Waltons Row, Blackhill, Co Durham. He enlisted at Newcastle on Tyne, to join
the 6th Battalion, Connaught Rangers in Co Cork, Ireland, attached to the
British Expeditionary Force. On Friday 9 March 1917, he died of wounds and
is buried at Kemmel Chateau Military Cemetry, Heuvellland, West Vlaanderen,
Belgium. Grave reference: M81. After his death, his mother was presented
with the DCM at the Olympia Cinema, Blackhill, when his courageous advance
into no-man's-land was commemorated on stage.
Elizabeth 1
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 19 July 06 23:30 UTC (UK) by Elizabeth1 »
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Rewcastle
RootsChat Member
Posts: 204
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
If you have a full/long copy of the certificate it should give the area (parish) of where the parents were from in Monaghan.
also in the parish registers it should record the area as well as the county where the parents were from.
regards,
Rewcastle
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Rewcastle,
Thanks for your message!!
Thomas Collins 1841 in Monaghan, married in Durham aged 25 in 1866 to Mary Ann Duffy aged 21 in St Mary's RC Church in Blackhill, Lanchester County Durham. I have the marriage certificate which states Thomas's father was Owen Collins, Mary Ann's father was Patrick Duffy, witnesses were Patrick Carney and Alice Small.
This is a full certificate ordered from County Durham GRO.
It did not state that either Thomas or his father Owen came from County Monaghan.
I only found out via the record of death of Thomas Collins born 1885 in Durham, his brother Patrick who died in WW1, as stated it said there father came from County Monaghan.
Elizabeth
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am maybe better working backward with this information:- I have my husbands grandfather Thomas Collins born in Durham in 1885.
This is the 1891 census innformation of his family:-
Margaret Collins about 1882 Blackhill, Durham, England Daughter Benfieldside Durham
Mary A Collins about 1858 Scotland Wife Benfieldside Durham
Michael Collins about 1888 Blackhill, Durham, England Son Benfieldside Durham
Patrick Collins about 1891 Blackhill, Durham, England Son Benfieldside Durham
Peter Collins about 1872 Blackhill, Durham, England Son Benfieldside Durham
Phillip Collins about 1874 Blackhill, Durham, England Son Benfieldside Durham
Teresa Collins about 1893 Blackhill, Durham, England Daughter Benfieldside Durham
Thomas Collins about 1841 Ireland Head Benfieldside Durham
Thomas Collins about 1885 Blackhill, Durham, England Son Benfieldside Durham
As you can see from the above, Thomas born 1885(who is my husbands grandfather), his fathers name is also Thomas Collins who was born in Ireland in 1841. I could never find out where in Ireland Thomas(born 1841) came from until I found the the information on Patrick Collins Death in WW1 which stated his father Thomas was from County Monaghan.
I sent for the marriage certificate of Thomas Collins born 1841, married 26th November 1866 thinking it may have told me where either Thomas or his father, who I later found out from the marriage certficate was called Owen came from in County Monaghan but it didn't!
Hope you can follow all this, it is a bit confusing!!
Elizabeth
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tootsiepie
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
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Hi Elizabeth, Have you got Thomas entry in the 1871 census? It may gave a more detailed place of birth.
A look for Owen Collins in the 1871 census may help too, as there is a death for an Owen Collins in Durham, aged 60 in 1874. (free B.M.D.)
If father Owen didn't leave Ireland, and if he was still alive at the time, I can see 4 entries for Owen Collins households in Co. Monaghan. Two in the parish of Aghnamullee, 1 in Clontibret and one in Magheracloone Parish. There is another entry in Aghnamullee, but it is land only.
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Flynn,Cox, Slaven-Co Longford
Donnelly,McGeown,Hughes,McCrory- Co Armagh
Hargan,Curran,Bradley,Grant,Peoples ,Patton,Dunn-Donegal
Conway,Degnan,McDonald,Cassidy,Kelly,Fenmore,Ryans,Kilkenny,Murray-Ireland/England/Scotland
Reeves,Fox,Williams-Shropshire/Staffordshire/Scotland
Gill,Kane-I.O.M/England/Scotland
Murdoch,Bruce,Rankine,Ballantyne-Ayrshire
McCutchen,McAdam,Wright-Kirkcudbright,Dumfries,Ayrshire
And others
Plus all variations in spellings
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tootsiepie
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
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p.s. I can't see this family in Durham in the 1881 census, do you have them elsewhere?
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Flynn,Cox, Slaven-Co Longford
Donnelly,McGeown,Hughes,McCrory- Co Armagh
Hargan,Curran,Bradley,Grant,Peoples ,Patton,Dunn-Donegal
Conway,Degnan,McDonald,Cassidy,Kelly,Fenmore,Ryans,Kilkenny,Murray-Ireland/England/Scotland
Reeves,Fox,Williams-Shropshire/Staffordshire/Scotland
Gill,Kane-I.O.M/England/Scotland
Murdoch,Bruce,Rankine,Ballantyne-Ayrshire
McCutchen,McAdam,Wright-Kirkcudbright,Dumfries,Ayrshire
And others
Plus all variations in spellings
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Toosiepie,
Yes I have the family in every census from 1871 after Thomas married in 1866, I also have the 1881,1891 and 1901 census for them in Durham.
1871
Mary A Collins about 1844 Berwick-Upon-Tweed Wife Durham
Peter Collins about 1869 Benfieldside, Durham, England Son Durham
Phillip Collins about 1870 Benfieldside, Durham, England Son Durham
Thomas Collins about 1841 Ireland Head Durham
Margaret Tracy about 1849 Tyrone, Ireland Lodger
I am not sure if Thomas's father Owen came to Durham or even England!
I just can't tell from the family census at all.
Thanks for your help with this. If you need any more information I will try and provide what I can.
Elizabeth
p.s. I also have Thomas born in 1885, married in 1915 I have his marriage certificate but this also does not state where his father was born.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 08 February 07 05:20 UTC (UK) by Elizabeth1 »
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Toosiepie,
The 1881 census information was mistranscribed,I feel this was due to the heavy Irish accent that the parents may have had at the time, even the mother and daughter who are both called Mary Ann are named as Margaret however it is the same family, information below:-
1881
Bridget Caulin abt 1874 Black Hill Daughter 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Catherne Caulin abt 1877 Black Hill Daughter 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Elizabeth Caulin abt 1881 Black Hill Daughter 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Margaret Caulin abt 1879 Black Hill Daughter 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Margret Caulin abt 1851 Berwick On Tweed Wife 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Margret Ann Caulin abt 1873 Black Hill Daughter 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Peter Caulin abt 1869 Black Hill Son 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Phillip Caulin abt 1871 Black Hill Son 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Thomas Caulin abt 1841 Ireland Head 12 Bottle Bank Blackhill, Benfieldside, Durham, England
Elizabeth
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tootsiepie
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
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Whew! Well, I think I would be tempted to see the details for any Owens of the right age group in 1871 in Durham plus the death cert of Owen 1874(I think- check free b.m.d.)
Though it probably wouldn't prove anything, unless the informant on the death cert was Thomas at one of his known addresses.
Have you managed to prove any relationship to the other Collins families of Blackhill Benfieldhill in the 1881. Namely John of 15 Derwent St, aged 50, born ENESCINE, Ireland, and Peter, West Road, born Ireland?
If you have, there is an Inishkeen Parish Co.Monaghan. A placename search on the I.G.I. shows the Catholic Parish births are available on film, starting from 1837. The I.G.I. also says there are spelling variations for this parish.
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Flynn,Cox, Slaven-Co Longford
Donnelly,McGeown,Hughes,McCrory- Co Armagh
Hargan,Curran,Bradley,Grant,Peoples ,Patton,Dunn-Donegal
Conway,Degnan,McDonald,Cassidy,Kelly,Fenmore,Ryans,Kilkenny,Murray-Ireland/England/Scotland
Reeves,Fox,Williams-Shropshire/Staffordshire/Scotland
Gill,Kane-I.O.M/England/Scotland
Murdoch,Bruce,Rankine,Ballantyne-Ayrshire
McCutchen,McAdam,Wright-Kirkcudbright,Dumfries,Ayrshire
And others
Plus all variations in spellings
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again Tootsiepie,
No I didn't know about the other Collins family in Blackhill Durham, I didn't even know there was one. I have however heard of an Owen Collins born 1841 the same year as Thomas, living in Durham, wondered if they were maybe twins but I don't know.
I am not used to searching English relatives as all my searching before has been in Scotland. My family are Scottish and my husband's father Thomas Aloysuis Collins (son of Thomas Collins born 1885 in Durham) married a scottish girl and stayed in Scotland all his life until he died in 1968.
I am not too sure what to do now as I have been searching the Collins family trying to get back to Ireland for some time now.
I have contacted County Monaghan Records Office but they say without knowing the area Owen and Thomas came from in County Monaghan they are unable to help. They did however say they have no record of a Thomas Collins being born in 1841 +/- 2 years anywhere in County Monaghan.
I am not too sure where to go from here, by the way Thomas born 1885 and his wife Ann or Annie lived in Richmond North Yorkshire, both are buried there.
Thanks again for all you help and advice!!
Elizabeth
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tootsiepie
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
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Hi again, I think I sent you a P.M., but not sure if it went! basically it was to say I'll send you the entries by P.M. for the other households later on this afternnon. I've got to go and start preparing dinner right now.  I
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Flynn,Cox, Slaven-Co Longford
Donnelly,McGeown,Hughes,McCrory- Co Armagh
Hargan,Curran,Bradley,Grant,Peoples ,Patton,Dunn-Donegal
Conway,Degnan,McDonald,Cassidy,Kelly,Fenmore,Ryans,Kilkenny,Murray-Ireland/England/Scotland
Reeves,Fox,Williams-Shropshire/Staffordshire/Scotland
Gill,Kane-I.O.M/England/Scotland
Murdoch,Bruce,Rankine,Ballantyne-Ayrshire
McCutchen,McAdam,Wright-Kirkcudbright,Dumfries,Ayrshire
And others
Plus all variations in spellings
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes I did receive your other message about the discs and that you would send the 1881 information.
Thanks Elizabeth
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« Last Edit: Friday 21 July 06 02:10 UTC (UK) by Elizabeth1 »
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tootsiepie
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
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Sorry - I forgot the I.G.I. has the 1881 census for Engand online-(already p.m. Elizabeth ) just in case anyone else was interested in the 1881 English. 
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Flynn,Cox, Slaven-Co Longford
Donnelly,McGeown,Hughes,McCrory- Co Armagh
Hargan,Curran,Bradley,Grant,Peoples ,Patton,Dunn-Donegal
Conway,Degnan,McDonald,Cassidy,Kelly,Fenmore,Ryans,Kilkenny,Murray-Ireland/England/Scotland
Reeves,Fox,Williams-Shropshire/Staffordshire/Scotland
Gill,Kane-I.O.M/England/Scotland
Murdoch,Bruce,Rankine,Ballantyne-Ayrshire
McCutchen,McAdam,Wright-Kirkcudbright,Dumfries,Ayrshire
And others
Plus all variations in spellings
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Betty Boo
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 843
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again,
received all the information you sent on the other Collins family in Durham. I will also try IGI as you suggested. Thanks again for your help!!
Elizabeth
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« Last Edit: Friday 21 July 06 00:58 UTC (UK) by Elizabeth1 »
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Rewcastle
RootsChat Member
Posts: 204
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Elizabeth,
The information of the streets, Tootsiepie & yourself have given is very helpful to narrow your search.
Here's the layout of the streets from what my mams told me, her grandfather lived in Walton Row and his sister lived in West Row.
Layout at the bottom 
St Mary's Church also called "Our Blessed Lady"
These streets were company houses (Consett steel works), It was where all the Irish Catholics moved to when they first came to the Consett area
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Tootsiepie said:- "Have you managed to prove any relationship to the other Collins families of Blackhill Benfieldhill in the 1881. Namely John of 15 Derwent St, aged 50, born ENESCINE, Ireland, and Peter, West Road, born Ireland"
Peter of West Road would be of West Row.?
As all these streets join each other. It is possible that Peter of Derwent street could have been the brother of Thomas.
I would look for Collins located in ENESCINE or similar name in Monaghan. My mams gt grandfather was William McCourt and lived in Walton Row one of the McCourts were listed as from Lysone, Tyrone, as far as i can tell they were from Lissan, Tyrone. it's the way that they say it!
Clogher Record Vol XVI, No 1 (1997)
Duffy, Godfrey F.: County Monaghan immigrants in the Consett area of County Durham, England, 1842-1855.
Could this person be a relative?
Regards,
Rewcastle.
Edit: hangon the image hasn't loaded??? ooh it has now
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waltonrow.png