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Topic: Jean Carson, b.c. 1786 Kirkmabreck (Read 814 times)
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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This thread originated at the end of the Helen Martin thread.
I am trying to find more information about my 3 x great grandmother, Jean/Jane Carson.
From subsequent records she appears to have been born around 1786, probably Kirkmabreck. The only one that fits neatly is:
Jean Culloch Carson, bpt. 7th March 1786 d/o William Carson and Esther Crae/MacCrae/Cree/MacCree.
She married James Burgess 17 Nov 1807 at Longcroft, New Galloway, parish of Kells. She is said to be 'of Kirkmabreck'. Unfortunately the banns records for Kirkmabreck for that period are extant.
I am puzzled because none of her children were named Esther - she had Jean, Margaret, Mary, etc. One of her later daughters was an Annie P Smith Burgess.
Husband's parents are John and Jean or Agnes (? a second marriage of John).
there was a Jean Carson b. Girthon at roughly the same time - parents William Carson and Margaret Porter.
In a letter of January 1835, James Burgess talks about 'staying the night with our old friend in Kirkbride' on their way to Creetown.
Any ideas?
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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A further bit of information which somewhat complicates things is that James Burgess's elder sister Mary Burgess married George Carson at some stage before 1833 - can't find a marriage record - possibly Parton, Balmaclellan or Kells. Parton marriages are extant for the 1820s so I expect it's there 
George Carson was definitely the son of William and Esther Carson. He served in the RA during the Napoleonic wars - have his record. Mary bought property in Castle Douglas in the 1820s (brother William died NYC 1823, a wealthy merchant!). By the time that George died in 1834, he was described as a 'spirit dealer'. I have the will. When Mary died in 1849, in Denbighshire, Wales, she is described as 'widow of George Carson, Inn keeper' on her death certificate.
So I'm not sure whether it was brother and sister marrying sister and brother or just coincidence.
This family (one of my main lines) is driving me barmy 
Gadget
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westiesmith
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 90
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget 
I can't help you with Jean Carson, sorry but thought I'd just mention that I have a Nicholas (Nicky) Carson in my tree. She was born about 1879, married William Smith and died December 1965 at The Lowes, Corsock.
At this stage I don't have many more details on her as I'm back on my English rellies while I wait for a letter from my cousin (Nicky's gr-daughter) in Gretna but if she is from your tree I can give you some details of her children. The family still live at The Lowes.
Good luck sorting out your Jean
Cheers, Debbie
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Thorpe - Burley, Leeds; Misterton, Notts; Hucknall, Notts; Gainsbro
Chapman - Wetheringsett, Suffolk;
Redmond - Rotherham?
Whitham - Rotherham
Knighton - Ilkeston, Derby
Smith, McKune, Rae - Kirkcudbrightshire
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Thanks Debbie
I don't think either of the Jeans had a sister Nicholas but maybe. I'm getting more convinced that she could be the Girthon one. Her children's names fit irregularly into the pattern.
Yours might be a descendant of one of Jean'ssibs but there are so many Carsons 
Where does the 'P Smith' in one of her daughter's names come from - it's a clue but very vague
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Yes that's what I was thinking - but Annie Porter Smith Burgess I can't find any Smiths
or Ann/Annies for that matter - still driving me crazy they are 200+ years on 
Gadget
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Scatza
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 94
Alabama Azalea
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Hi again Gadget,
'Your' James Burgess and 'my' Helen Shaw ....the plot thickens To recap, Helen Shaw married a James Burgess ....according to her death registration. Helen was a daughter of Nathan Shaw and Isabella McLean, whose children were all apparently, and co-incidentally, born in Kirkmabreck in the late 1700'sand early 1800's. Helen was the sister of my ggg Isabella Shaw who married John McMurray. Isabella's birth place is variously given as Kirkmabreck or Anwoth - which I understand were 'joined' at one time for church/parish records. I have not come across Jean Carson, yet, but I am beginning to think that there must be a connection between the two James Burgesses. I will keep looking though, and keep you posted if I find a Carson or Smith connection in my searches.
Purple Person
Scatza 
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McMurrie/McMurray, McFegan, McClune, Coltart, Shaw, McLean - Kirkcudbright; McMurray, Simpson, Adams, Mussett South Africa
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Scatza
I was just posting my names when your message popped in 
I'm still not sure about your James -he was too young to be mine and my James son James married a Margaret Jones from Llanrwst and was in the North Wales police.
The full list of childrens names of Jean and James were:
Female
Jean Carson - poss James mother
Margaret - poss Jean's mother
Mary - James sister?
Menie - too many girls - Wihelmina for William Jean's father
Johanna - too many girls as above- James father
Annie P Smith - ??
Helen - ??
Agnes - another poss mother for James?
Male
John - died - James father
William - Jean's father
James - James
Gadget
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duckweed
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 450
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Are there smugglers in your family? Looking up local history books. Found reverend Carson of Anworth church suspended for smuggling. Also Smugglers called Morrison Gault and company. I've got a lot of old history books of the area. I'll keep looking and see what comes up. If you can't find births of certain people there are also the kirk session records which may give you clues but only of course if you can get access to Edinburgh records office or know someone who can.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Haven't looked at the Kirk sessions for Kirkmabreck.
I'd love to think that I'd got smugglers as ancestors - oh tell me more
Got lots of books on D & G - spent a whole afternoon in Wigtown
Gadget
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duckweed
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 450
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I used to live in Creetown. The area was a vast smuggling area. Many of the local houses have secret tunnels in the attics and hiding places. I've seen them. Walter Scott wrote Dirk Hatterick because he knew the area knew. There are small holes in the rocks on the Ravenshall shore about four miles from Creetown where smugglers hid contraband and at one time Covenanters. The minister of Anworth was dismissed because of his smuggling connections. His name was Carson but I don't know his first name. Robert Burns stayed frequently in Creetown when he worked as an excise man. One of the biggest smuggling operations was Morrison, Gault and Company whose secret headquarters at Clone Farm, on Luce Bay, near Port William but their operation spread a long way. The kirk session records are fun to read because I read them some time ago when researching the parish of Kirkmabreck. Beyond ordinary church business they were also responsible for the morality of the parish so all the gossip is there too. Somewhere I have a history of the parish written some 20 years ago by a local man Drew Murray who drew on a lot of the local legends as well as his own more academic research. It was only printed locally so is not in circulation. I'll see if I can find it and see if any of your ancestors turn up in it. I have some 19th century history books but they are for the whole of scotland or Edinburgh but I have a couple of books about Galloway which were written in the 1930s so have some details not current. I'll see what I can dig up. Who knows I might find something useful.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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That would be lovely, duckweed. Thank you ever so.
I've got lots of history/local tales books on D & G - old and new that I've collected over the last few years. The bookshops in Wigtown might have an odd copy. I know that there was one where the owner was really into local history in a big way - I spent ages talking to him. Got some Galmumfreys (?spelling).
There was also a good bookshop in Kirkcudbright itself.
I want some smuggler ancestors, please find some for me
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24545
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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I forgot to mention that when I was last in Creetown, there was a marvelous exhibition of old photos, newspaper cuttings and other memorabilia. It was really super and all done by volunteers.
Also, the stone from the local quarry was sent to Livepool to build the docks there. It's one explanation of why thee are so many people from that area in Liverpool.
Another insight was to look at a map with the Irish Sea in the centre. It explains why the Irish, Gallovidians, Manx and North Wales peoples mixed so much in the earlier centuries. Sea travel was that much more easy.
Lots of adverts for travel to Liverpool as well in the exhibition. Oh it's all coming back
Gadget
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duckweed
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 450
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm glad they are still doing the exhibitions. My mother and I started them off a number of years ago. It started as a fundraiser showing local artists work and asking locals to bring old objects and photos. It was a great success as there is nothing a community likes better than looking at old phots and swapping family legends.
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