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Topic: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse (Read 4413 times)
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
 Offline
Posts: 403
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Hi all..Could anyone plse do a lookup for Christina Sutherland born Dunbeath, Caithness, 16 November 1838. Parents William Sutherland & Christina Sutherland formerly Sutherland. On the IGI there is another Christina Sutherland born same date & place but dying younger than my g.grandmother who passed away in Ashburton, New Zealand in 1912. She came to New Zealand in 1867 on the vessel "Lincoln.
A witness at her marriage was a James Sutherland, farmer, Selwyn, NZ. She was married in the home of a Mr Sutherland.
She is a big mystery & I've been trying for over 2yrs to find her siblings & details of her parents.
Thank you so much for anyone who may be able to help our family.
regards, Tiffaney.
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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Hi Tiffaney
You should have a look at the 1841 Census on FreeCen (which as the name implies, is free to search). The 1841 Census for Caithness is now 100% complete (85% transcribed to date on the 1851 Census) at www.freecen.org.uk
In respect of the IGI entry that you refer to, the information has been submitted by a member, it is not an actual extract from the OPRs (Old Parish Registers) and as such, would have to be verified.
Did she marry in NZ? Do you have your Catherine's parents confirmed on her marriage/ death certs in NZ?
Final question! Have you seen the ship's manifest for the 'Lincoln'? Did she travel alone or with family?
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 403
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Dear Monica, Thank you for your reply to the above query.
I have been unable to find anything concrete on the Caithness 1841 Freecensus re Christina Sutherland b. 1838 or her mother Christina & father William but I will go through both 1841 & 1851 again.
I found Christina on the manifest of passengers arriving on the "Lincoln" in 1867 which ties in with an entry written about her arriving shortly before her marriage to William McLauchlan on 4 June 1868. There were no other family mentioned aboard. She was no spring chicken when marrying & occupation was 'cook'.
I gathered her marriage details from Christchurch Public Library.
Death Cert:
No. 921 Folio no. 1912/482 ref: 5-0134079 Christina McLauchlan nee Sutherland/
When & where died: 19 January, 1912 at Lagmhor (son-in-laws)
Sex & age: Female...76yrs.
Name & Surname of father: William Sutherland. farmer
Name & if known, Maiden Surname of mother: Christina Sutherland formerly Sutherland.
Religion: Presbyterian.
Where born: Dunbeath, Caithness.
How long in New Zealand: 44 yrs.
etc.etc.
Signature of informant: J.McLauchlan son of deceased. Waterton.
After going through freecen again what would be best to do next.
regards, Tiffaney
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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Tiffaney
I'm a bit stuck here too! From FreeCen 1841, I cannot see any Sutherland family groups with a William and Christina (and variants) who have a child Christina in the household. There are some entries where there is a William father but mother's name is different and vice versa (as I'm sure you have found when you have gone throught it).
Were these parents' names also on Christina's NZ marriage cert.? Sometimes, depending on the informant, the information given when reporting deaths can be incorrect (children may not remember the names of their g/parents).
I've had a quick look on Scotlands People, the official Scottish pay to view BMD and Census site. There are no death entries coming up for a female (any first name) Sutherland, other name Sutherland, any age, anywhere in Scotland between 1855-1955. Official Registration began in Scotland in 1855, so it could be that Christina's mother died before this date and no on-line record exists.
In which case, you are back to the censuses. Certainly if the family remained in Caithness, at least in 1841, there is no record of them with those parents' names. I would open up your birth years for Christina, if she died in 1912 aged 76, then her birth year would be c.1835-36. The IGI submitted entry may just be a little bit of a 'red herring'.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 403
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Monica Thank you again, especially looking up Scotlands people very generous & for your time.
I will send away for a photocopy of Christina & William's marriage cert. The record I have came from the library & I've heard a photocopy is best. (more detailed). Will take approx. a week.
Have written to Dunbeath Heritage & they are going to look into her for me too.
Back to census's again with your suggestion re birth date 1835-36.
Will keep you informed if I find out more.
In appreciation,
Tiffaney
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 403
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Hi, just had another thought there was also another Christina Sutherland, born same date, place & with the same parent's names only she died much younger. (30's)? I can't remember where I found her..most probably IGI..not impossible I know but she doesn't appear to com up on census's either.
Cheers,
Di
ps going to make a tall black coffee before I go potty!!!
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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ostler
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 156
John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Hi, I'm looking for my great great grandfather, William Sutherland. I know he was born in Latheron, Caithness, in 1845, and that his parents were Angus Sutherland and Janet Sutherland (née Sutherland). I've looked up the 1851 census on FreeCEN, but I think he must be in the 15% not done.  I've also paid on ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk and used genesconnected.co.uk but no one seems to have him!
If anyone could look up the 1851 census for me, I'd be most grateful. I'm mainly after his parents' ages in 1851, and whether or not he had siblings.
Thanks.
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Looking for info on: Sutherland, Kinnes, Ostler, Mowat, Fleming, Small, Bromley, Edkins, Dorans, Terras, Dudgeon.
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 403
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Hi Ostler,
I have been having the same trouble for over 2yrs now. Just hang in there. This is a great site with so many going out of their way to help..I have been absolutely gob smacked by all I have learnt & the generosity of it's members.
Have you tried looking at Oursutherlands.com a new site featuring Sutherlands from Orkney & Caithness. Neil Sutherland ,whose site it is is adding new pages at the mo' but you can still go to the forum & leave a query.
I am trying to go to more recent deaths & marriages in the hope that I may have a break through. Perhaps you could do the same...you might find siblings that way.
We will get there in the end, 
Cheers, Tiffaney
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Logged
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 403
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Hi Ostler,
Just had another thought...why not start a new subject with your names on it. Should get added interest that way.
Cheers,
Tiffaney.
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Logged
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 403
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Hi again Monica,
Marriage certificate exactly the same Christina Sutherland nee Sutherland so guess it must have been Sutherland. Still optomistic,
Cheers, Tiffaney
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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Hi Tiffaney
Missed your last couple of posts - for some reason I am not getting alerts on some of my old posts. Picked up your last post by chance.
You now have confirmed in both Christina's marriage and death certs. her parents' details.............and therein lies the puzzle!
I've spent some time going back on all the details, and this where I am at:
From 1841 Free Cen, the following two families are the only possibilities that stand out in Caithness, assuming she remained there after her birth:
Family 1
SUTHERLAND William age 40 Mason b. Outside Census County
SUTHERLAND Christian age 40 b. Outside Census County (1841)
SUTHERLAND Mary age 15 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Elizabeth age 15 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Anne age 13 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Alexander age 10 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND John age 9 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Catharine age 4 b. Caithness
Address: Brehungy, Latheron-Caithness
Two issues with this family. Father is down as Mason and we have a Catherine aged 4 rather than a Christina. However, this is the family for the children of a William Sutherland and Christina SUTHERLAND With the exception of Catherine/Christina, the children match those showing on IGI (although the IGI submitted entries are not complete). I've also looked at child Ann's marriage cert in 1855 (good year for info on certs!), mother's maiden name certainly Sutherland.
I've got the family in 1851. By 1861, Catherine, a domestic servant, is showing as younger than she is and is living unmarried with her parents, all the other children have left home. Cannnot find mother's death, but she died between 1861 and 1880. There are no Sutherland/Sutherland deaths showing on SP (which I find strange given it's a common name particularly in those parts and there are lots of couples who both have that name).
Her father William died in 1880, a widower, and in the Poorhouse (registered Pauper).
Family 2
SUTHERLAND William age 40 Farmer b.Caithness
SUTHERLAND Janet age 35 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Donald age 13 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Margaret age 11 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Alexander b. 7 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND John age 5 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Christina age 2 Caithness
SUTHERLAND Catharine age 3m b. Caithness
Address: Shinvall, Latheron-Caithness
The only other possible family that I can find in 1841. Again some issues, mother is down as Janet (Bruce). However, this William is down as farmer which fits the description in Christina's M/D certs. The fact that Christina's M& D certs clearly state Christina Sutherland, makes me think this is not her family.
So where now from here? If I was speculating, I would wonder whether the Catherine showing with a William and Christina Sutherland was actually your Christina. She left Scotland in 1867, I wonder if this may be around the time her mother died (can't prove it given that her death details have probably been mistrascribed and are not showing under Sutherland/Sutherland).
Next stage, I would try to find the marriage cert in Scotland if it exists of a Catherine Sutherland with those parents to at least be able to discount her/family.
Also, given that we now know that this father William died in 1880, I would check what Poor Relief Records exist for him. I don't know what the Poor Relief Records are like for Caithness and what periods are available. If lucky, and they can be found, they can provide a wealth of personal information not normally available and as such might provide further clues/confirmation.
Regards.
Monica
PS: the death details of a Christina Sutherland (parents William and Christina Sutherland) which have been submitted to IGI are completely incorrect. There is one death in 1869 of a Christina Sutherland in Edinburgh. Wrong father and mother is a Christina but a different maiden name. Perfect example of how submitted entries on IGI can just be plain wrong!
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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There are 8 marriage entries in Latheron between 1861 - 70 on SP for Catherine Sutherlands. These match those on IGI for the same period. Some kind person has already submitted bride's parent details. No match - no William/Christina parents show. Of the 1870 - 1875 entries on IGI, the bride's age is wrong for it to be the Catherine we are searching for.
Regards.
Monica
Remember though, this is only for Caithness!
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Logged
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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Hi Ostler
I'm carrying on today with a Sutherland theme!
I've found your William age 6 in the 1851 Census living at home with parents Angus age 45 and mother Janet age 35, all showing as born in Berriedale. If you PM me with an email address, happy to send you further details.
Regards.
Monica
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Logged
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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Tiffaney
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 403
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Hi Monica,
Very appreciative of your marvellous help.
On ship coming out, marriage , death cert & MI Christina's name was always Christina but that's not to say it was originally. After she married William McLauchlan in 1867 there only daughter born 1871 was called Catherine sooo perhaps she was christened Catherine.
Birthdate 1835-1838 16 Nov.
Will study your findings again. You may have knocked down my brick wall at last..that would be fantastic.
 Thank you,
Tiffaney
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Caithness: Sutherland /Sutherland (2 families)
Perthshire: McLauchlan, Galletly. Dunn. Milne/ Mills(b Cargill)
Glasgow: Paisley: Gilmour; Fillens (
Orkney: Shearer, Peace, Laughton,Sinclair
Devon: Moore, Gempton, Copp,
London: Bond, Rix, Nightingale,Hartley, Mason
Nottingham: Bomforth, Shaw
Australia: Graham, Tattersall, Moore, Galletly
Ireland: Angland
Scotland: Skinner
New Zealand: McLauchlan, Sutherland, Shearer, Rix, Moore, Hartley,Mason, Gilmour Bomforth, Shaw, Dunn, Galletly
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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Tiffaney
I think at this stage it would be worthwhile you following up what records there are for William Sutherland's Poor Relief. Might be lucky. Have a look at this post here on the RootsChat Caithness board re the Poorhouse that William died at in 1880: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Latheron/Latheron.shtml. It's looking hopeful, there are certainly records for the period we're interested in.
If you can let me have an email address to use, happy to send you the details on the certs. I viewed.
Regards.
Monica
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Logged
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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