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Topic: Sutherland family Caithness 1841 & 1851 census lookup plse (Read 8919 times)
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Then on the Mormons' site I discovered Katharine Gunn married an Alexander Sutherland, 9 Dec 1803 in Wick. 
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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What were the names of Janet's parents, Charlotte Gunn and ? I'm not so concerned about Charlotte showing as 'cousin' in 1851, I've seen stranger relationships to head being shown on censuses 
I looked yesterday on the 1841 census indexes for a Neil Sutherland in Latheron, and there were two. First born in 1766 living with a Mary (or was it Christina?) b. 1801 probably a daughter I thought. Another born in the 1780s (I'm doing all this from memory as you've probably gathered!) but I think he was married to a Janet Campbell and died in his 90s post official reg., father a John Sutherland. The 1841 Census is not the most ideal to extract much detailed info from unfortunately also there's the possibility that Angus's father died pre 1841.
I think the Postmaster from Dunbeath might be a better avenue for you follow to try and find Neil Sutherland's family.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Ostler
Long day for me today.....brain's tired. I've just remembered that the 'cousin' in 1851 was Charlotte not Catherine. I also remembered checking for marriages on IGI and there was one for a Charlotte Gunn marrying a Hugh Bain (thinking here of Angus's mother Janet Bain).
The point to remember with IGI is that even though you are seeing similar names, they may not necessarily be 'yours' due to high frequency of particular surnames in certain counties (Sutherland in Caithness is a good example!) and as such the entries may not be relevant to your line.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Catherine (Katharine?) Gunn and John Sutherland, I think I've found their marriage on familysearch.org:
22 Jan 1796 in Latheron.
OK so "follow" the avenue of Angus/his wife's cousin Alexander in the post office... by doing what exactly? 
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Just a suggestion given the lack of info at this stage on Neil, Angus's father. If you found Alexander Sutherland's DC with parents' names, (a possible brother or sister to Neil) you may be able to find out more info on them if available than you have found to date on Neil. Sometimes when researching one person, you can find that although there is nothing on IGI about them, some of their siblings do show on the OPRs.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Thanks ever so much for all your help, it's most appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hi Ostler,
Just spotted this post too...I really should look around more!
The Charlotte Gunn (cousin) in 1861 is as follows in the 1851 and 1841 census returns:
Piece: SCT1851/38 Place: Latheron -Caithness Enumeration District: 19
Civil Parish: Latheron Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Berriedale
Folio: 0 Page: 9 Schedule: 33
Address: Borgy
SUTHERLAND Donald Head M M 37 Fisherman & Farmer 3 Acres Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Janet Wife M F 36 - Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Donald Son - M 9 Scholar Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND John Son - M 7 Scholar Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Charles Son - M 5 - Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Margaret Dau - F 3 - Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Robert Son - M 1 - Caithness - Latheron
GUNN Charlotte Ma-Law U F 60 Pauper (House Servant) Caithness - Latheron
and 1841 census:
Piece: SCT1841/38 Place: Latheron -Caithness Enumeration District: 13
Civil Parish: Latheron Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Berriedale
Folio: 0 Page: 9
Address: Lower Borgue
GUNN Charlotte F 50 Crofter Caithness
SUTHERLAND Donald M 25 Shoemaker Caithness
ARMSTRONG Janet F 25 Caithness
I looked up her death too, it is:
Charlotte Gunn 84yrs d. 15 Apr 1864 Borguie, Berriedale Fa: Robert Gunn (dec) Mo: Betty Grant (dec) Old Age Inf: Donald Sutherland (son-in-law) present.
There were no more deaths of a Charlotte Gunn until 1899. So I am pretty sure this is her. It means that she never married, but had an illegitimate daughter Janet to a fellow called Armstrong.
I haven't figured out where she fits in yet with John Sutherland and Catherine Gunn (Janet's parents) but I am sure that she will slot into place eventually. I "assume" that her father Robert Gunn is Catherine Gunn's brother or uncle, I have seen stranger relationships on the census returns.
Hope this helps
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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GUNN Charlotte F 50 Crofter Caithness
SUTHERLAND Donald M 25 Shoemaker Caithness
ARMSTRONG Janet F 25 Caithness
There were no more deaths of a Charlotte Gunn until 1899. So I am pretty sure this is her. It means that she never married, but had an illegitimate daughter Janet to a fellow called Armstrong.
You sure that Janet Armstrong isn't just Donald Sutherland's wife, but for some reason with her maiden name written down? Or maybe Donald and Janet weren't married at this point, as they don't seem to have any children yet. Food for thought.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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That is exactly what I think, I think they weren't married yet, but eventually got married as per the later census. The Donald Sutherland in question is the son-in-law mentioned on Charlotte Gunn's death certificate, so he did marry her daughter Janet. I suppose whe may have been married first to a Mr Armstrong and then widowed?? But her mother Charlotte is always down as unmarried in all her census returns and on her death, so I suspect that Janet was an illigitimate child.
Anyway not sure where she fits in yet anyway, so might not be very relevant 
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Ummm yeah that's me.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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Kiwicol
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi can any one tell me if these tie in to your area of research?
The 1841 census has William, a farmer, with Ann and their five sons all at Balnabruich, with a Hellen SUTHERLAND aged 20 a female servant. The next two places enumerated also have SUTHERLANDs.
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
This note was on Rootsweb, but where is Ann in 1861?
Ann Gordon and William Sutherland married in 1829 in Latheron, Caithness.
At that time Ann was living at Corriechoich, just north of Kildonan at the foot of Maiden Pap. After her marriage she and William lived at Balnabruich, Dunbeath, Caithness and there had eight sons. She went out to New Zealand in 1862 after the death of her husband taking her younger sons
with her. The elder sons had already gone to New Zealand.
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« Last Edit: Monday 07 April 08 13:42 UTC (UK) by copyright_editor »
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hi Kiwicol, not one of mine unfortunately...Sutherland's are pretty common up there
Good luck with the search
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Not mine either, that I'm aware of, sorry!
Hi Jen! 
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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