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Topic: 1851 Census REQUEST London/middlesex (Read 611 times)
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spendlove
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 509
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Could anyone do look up for:-
Mary Ann Strutt born abt 1784 Hertford, Herts widow.
Rachael Kezia Strutt born 1819 Isleworth unmarried.
In later census only Kezia christian name listed.
I hope to find them Russell Sq., London
or Isleworth.
Any help would be very much appreciated.
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Kazza
Welsh Lass
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1773
Looking into Holes
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Sorry,
At present we do not have any volunteers offering lookups on the resources you requested. We will let you know as soon as the information becomes available,
Kazza.
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 Surname interests: Clementsten, Hobson, Hole, Marden, O'Clements, Pitten, Sharland, Vickery (Vicary), Williams. Area Interests: Cardiff, Bampton, Bideford, Crediton, Wollaston, Somerset, Tidenham, Norway, Australia to Bristol. |
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spendlove
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 509
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Jag,
Many thanks for your trouble. My long search for this particular branch of Strutt family continues
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Cougar
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2585
Another tiger cub at Tiger Temple, Thailand
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Hi Spendlove,
Just had a look at the 1861 which is not fully indexed yet = there is only one Mary Ann - no age Clerkenwell, St James - no Kezia or variation though
Sorry Cougar
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Researching STANLEY, EWENS, BARBER, WOOD, WHILLANCE, ROSSER,REYNOLDS, SPILLER This information is Crown Copywrite. from the www.national archives.go.v.uk. |
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Cougar
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2585
Another tiger cub at Tiger Temple, Thailand
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Hi there Spendlove,
Found these for you tonight
10 Barking Alley, Allhallows, Barking, London
William Strutt, 45, ships carpenter born Hampton Court Middlesex
Louisa, 36 born Whitechapel.
Hopefully they are yours,
Cheers Cougar
PS they couldn't find the order for the index so will have to wait another 10 days. In the meantime, I'm wandering through the streets of London.
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Researching STANLEY, EWENS, BARBER, WOOD, WHILLANCE, ROSSER,REYNOLDS, SPILLER This information is Crown Copywrite. from the www.national archives.go.v.uk. |
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spendlove
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 509
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi Cougar,
This one looks a possible.
Many thanks for all your trouble.
Spendlove.
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Cougar
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2585
Another tiger cub at Tiger Temple, Thailand
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Will keep looking as I go through - never know, could find more,
Cheers Sue
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Researching STANLEY, EWENS, BARBER, WOOD, WHILLANCE, ROSSER,REYNOLDS, SPILLER This information is Crown Copywrite. from the www.national archives.go.v.uk. |
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kermie62
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Greetings
I have done extensive research on this Strutt family and may be able to help.
I do have the census records and I also have an address. Please contact me for them.
My great great great grandmother was widowed (after the birth of my gx2 grandfather and then married her cousin Joseph Strutt who is the son of Mary Ann Strutt and the brother of Jemina and Rachel. The very early days of the family are difficult to workout, I have an address in london where Joseph Strutt Senior (the father) he might have been living and I also have clues he might have been an MP.
There was certainly a downfall in the families fortunes because the eldest son was a surgeon,. the upper daughters married a lawyer, the younger daughter Matilda married an upholsterer/ stationer clerk and the youngest son ended up in the workhouse
After about 1830 they were living in Gunnersbury Place in Holburn? near Isleworth in a house provided by Mary Ann's brother, my gx4 grandfather.
Contact me directly and I will dig up the information I have
Regards
Steven
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spendlove
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 509
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi Steven,
Many thanks for your reply to my post placed a long time ago. Since then I have done more
research into this particular Strutt family - unfortunately it turned out they were not my Strutts.
Joseph = Mary Ann Rolfe, was the son of Joseph Strutt - Author and Antiquarian one of his many
books "Dress & Habits of the English People". HE WAS NOT AN MP
Joseph = Mary Ann Rolfe - was Record Keeper to the Duke of Northumberland.
Sure you know that after Jemima died, John Bird married her sister Rachel Kezia - but did you know
this marriage took place in Switzerland. Rachel Kezia after the death of John Bird married again.
If I can fill in any gaps for you please let me know, thank you so much for your reply. I still have not
solved my own Strutt problem which was a Joseph Strutt born London 25th November 1766, so if
you have any stray Strutts which do not fit your tree would be pleased to have information.
Regards
Spendlove
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kermie62
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for the response, Sorry I did not realise the age of the post. These strutts are alsonot in my direct line of descent but my Great grandmothers great grandfather was John Valentine Rolfe whose sister was Mary Ann Strutt and was mentioned in his will and we have been able to use this strutt family as a catalyst or carrier to take the family back.
So what you are telling me is that there were two Mary Anns who married a Joseph Strutt the firsst the son of the author and the second is the Recird Keeper to the duke of Northumberland. (Which one of these two is the parents of Jemima and Rachel).
I can also add a third. Mary Ann Rolfe, daughter of John Valentine Rolfe married Joseph Strutt her cousin who was a surgeon. (at the same time, there was Mary Ann Strutt the mother in law, Mary Ann Strutt the sister in law, and eventually mary Ann Strutt the daughter)
The reason believed he was an MP was that there was liste in an 1818? directory that listed an MP in Isleworth called Joseph Strutt and I have found there have been two and three Joseph Strut MP's around that time and one of whom was called Joseph Holden Strutt
There have been a numbner of reasons I have been trying to follow this family back. We have hit a brick wall with the Rolfes, both Johns census dfata and the earlier census for mary Ann Strutt show them as coming from Whitechapel but we cannot get a handle on what record is them. The last census for mary Ann was a complete change from the previous census data. Given the close relationship of the Strutts and the Rolfes, I was hoping if we found one we could find the other.
The other question that you may be able to help with is a mystery regarding John Valentine Rolfe. We have what we think is his marriage where he marreid an Elizabeth Smith and in his marriage certificate and his marriage license (which his wife obtained funnily enough). On both, his profession is given as "Servant to Mr Diball". Yet despite being a servant, he later owned significant property, was lsited in a Directory under gentry and left a large amount of money including a groupmof houses and shares according to his will and death duties.
We also know that after Joseph Strutt died, the Strutt family lost there income fairly quickly and the house at Gunnersbury place was owned by John V. Rolfe George the youngest ended up in the workhouse. If Joseph Strutt was the record keeper to the Duke, that could explain this, that John met someone through his brother in law.
Any ifnormation you can give would be appreciative.
Yes I was aware of the Switzerland connection with the second marriage. There is also another second puzzling link. One of the Jemima and Rachels brothers was named hamel Ingold Strutt. He ended up in the Prussian navy and also in the admiralty. Ingold and Hamel are swiss names. The family had a habit of nameing people after suignificant people and family so there is some large mystery to be discovered there
Thanks
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spendlove
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 509
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi,
Sorry, I think I have confused you with my post.
So this is the tree:-
Joseph Strutt (1749-1802), originating from Chelmsford = Anne Blower (This Joseph was the Author) they had:-
William Thomas Strutt 1777
Ann Elizabeth Strutt 1779
Joseph Strutt = Mary Ann Rolfe (This Joseph was the Record Keeper to Duke of Northumberland) they
had:-
George Frederick 1801
Joseph 1802
Mary Ann 1806
John 1807
Jemima 1809
George Younge 1811
Percy abt 1813
Stephen Chitterbuck 1815
Mathew Henry 1817
Rachel Kezia 1819
William 1821
Matilda 1825
I did not include Hammel Ingold Strutt on my tree, because the Mother in the Bpt record is only listed as Mary and on all the other Bpt records she is Mary Ann. Do you have further written evidence
that this was one of the Children of Joseph Strutt & Mary Ann Rolfe?
Sorry I cannot assist with the Rolfe side, my research stopped when I finally proved this was not
the Strutt family I was researching.
The term Servant, you should not apply the modern interpretation i.e. cook, maid, man servant,
it was often a term used to suggest an Agent etc. In which case they would have been educated and have
had there own personal wealth.
Hope this assists.
Spendlove.
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kermie62
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for the info, it is certainly a help in understanding the family although as always, further questions are simply opened. I used the info you gave me to dfind in google books, the obituary for Joseph Strutt
With respect to Hamel, I will search for some supporting documentation but may I present my arguements
1) I havent seen the original transcript from the church and transcripotion errors are quite common. In fact errors by the original record keeper were quite common as well. I have heard it said that you must assume that every transcriber or recoird enterer is illiterate, drunk, half blind, deaf mentaqlly handicapped or simply didnt care and that is often the best circumstances . In many cases I have found my Mary Ann's recorded simply as Mary . An example is that in your tree below you give Josephs mother as Anna where as family search gives her name as Ann.
2) Hamel was baptised in 1804 at the same church as Joseph Strutt the grandson in 1802and brother to Rachel in St Andrew Holbourn as was Mary Ann in 1806
3) Hamel was christened 3 Jun 1804. If you look at the ages of the children they all come at intervals of about 2 years except for a 4 year gap between Joseph and Mary Ann and the last two children William and Matilda (however by that time, the poor mother had been having children for 25 years so not surprising that she may be getting tired). Hamel fits very precisely into the middle of that 4 year gap.
Thus I feel by Family history standards at this distqance, I can be fairly justified in including him.
Thanks again for your help
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spendlove
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 509
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Hi,
There is an entry for Joseph Strutt B 1749, in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Most
people can now access this via the County Library Service on line.
I do agree, that Hamel fits in with the dates of birth of other children and also agree that there
are many transcription errors.
For my own research, I always try to discover other written evidence to support church records this
far back. This is why I did not include Hamel, plus the fact that most of this particular Strutt family
appear to have Artistic connections - The Australian Branch, even Rev. John J. S. Bird because of the
wonderful collection of photographs he took. Just felt that Hamel did not fit in with this trait.
Will be very interested to find what you discover. As I said these are not the Strutt family I was looking for
but find them all very interesting.
Regards
Spendlove
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kermie62
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 10
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes I prefer to go back to the original records myself and read the original and to have supporting evidence. It took an enormous amount of work to prove that Hamels motehr was the sister of John Rolfe and that the cousins married. Akll we started with was that we had two records of a Mary Ann Rolfe marrying a Joseph Strutt with 20 years between them.
With respect to artistic talent, I guess the Australian branch didnt get it. Joseph Strutt jnr and Mary Ann had possibly one son together (george) although he could have been from Josephs first marriage, anotehr son who died in infancy and a daughter called Mary Ann Elizabeth Strutt. Joseph Coombe from Mary Anns first marriage died in Auckland when he was 40 in 1872, George died earlier in queensland of snake bite and Joseph Strutt died in 1840. A lot of tragety in my family.
Joseph was a surgeon and his daughter married a John Donald McLean in Australia who unfortuantely also died at a young age leaving her a widow with kids. None of this family as far as I can trace them. The only thing I think my family who is descended from Joseph Coombe gained was the tradition of naming people after improtat persons in the family.
PS to Hamel Ingold I would also add Chitterbuck, I mean CHITTERBUCK?
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Pages: [1] 2
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