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Topic: Syme Family of Preston Pans Scotland (Read 1629 times)
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mcleodsyme
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I would be interested to hear from anyone who is related to the Syme family.
The Syme family lived at Northfield in Preston Pans Scotland. The fathers name was James, he died in 1819, his wife was Helen Knox and she died in 1843. There was a son James who died after 1819 and before 1843, a son George and a son Thomas.
They had three daughters, I don't know the first name of two but their daughter Catharine was my G.G. Grandmother.
Thanks,
Mcleod/Syme
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Wee Bairn
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 21
1st Holiday
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Hello mcleodsyme,
Welcome to Roots.James Syme married Helen Knox 9 May 1783 Canongate Edinburgh , Midlothian .
They had the following children:
James Syme 24 Apr 1785
Christian Syme 28 July 1786
George Syme 21 Oct 1788
Andrew Syme 9 Oct 1790
Thomas Syme 5 Nov 1795
David Syme 29 July 1797
All extracts in the parish registers of Edinburgh Parish , Edinburgh , Midlothian Scotland.If you visit your local LDS Family History Center they will be able to help you locate the correct microfiche.
Happy Hunting,
Wee Bairn
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Looking for Haldane , Johnstone , Keir ,McLauchlan ,Queate , Walker ,Laurie ,Holmes ,McIlwee , Welsh ,Torrance ,Newport ,Rae ,Scott ,Clark ,Hill ,Millar , McMillan ,Dalziel ,Longmuir ,Wardrop , Grey , Young ,Frew , Main ,Cockburn , Ferguson ,Duncan ,Strachan , Stewart , Campbell copyrighted material from both © Crown copyright and copyright Scotland On Line Ltd.: Genealogy, family history and family tree information and Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mcleodsyme
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Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Wee Bairn
Thank you very much for all your work.
I have been working on our family history and had luck with the Mcleod side and now thanks to you the Syme side is progressing.
Mcleod/Syme
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4278
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Hi McLeod/Syme,
After looking at your thread at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,237141
I came across this old thread in your previous posts.
I'm not sure what you already know and what you are trying to find - perhaps only others researching your family?
In case you don't have the following ...
FreeCEN at:
http://www.freecen.org.uk/
has complete coverage of the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses for East Lothian.
Prestonpans was a parish in the county of East Lothian (formerly Haddingtonshire); see:
http://www.clerkington.plus.com/GENUKI/ELN/Prestonpans/index.html
From FreeCEN:
1841 - there are 9 SYME records in East Lothian but none in Prestonpans.
1851 - there are 17 SYME records including one household in Prestonpans; at Preston Northfield House, headed by George SYME, Lieutenant RN Half-pay, age 61, born Edinburgh Midlothian (presumably this is George son of James & Helen).
1861 - there are 19 SYME records including the household in Prestonpans; George now described as a Retired Commander RN.
The IGI (International Genealogical Index) on FamilySearch at:
http://www.familysearch.org
has George's marriage to Jane MACLEOD in 1827, Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian.
(Jane was born in Stornoway, Ross and Cromarty, ca 1803, according to the census records.)
A parent search in the IGI finds extracted entries for the christenings of 6 of their children; also a submission by an LDS member for the birth of a son John in 1834 in Prestonpans (given as his birthplace in the 1841 census) and his death in 1927 in Simco Ontario.
(Interesting to note that George & Jane's daughter Jane was born in Stornoway, Ross & Cromarty, according to the 1851 census but was christened in Inveresk with Musselburgh, Midlothian).
Also that the christenings of Helen 1836 and Elizabeth 1838 took place in Prestonpans yet there are no SYMEs in Prestonpans in the 1841 census ...
You could, if you wished, search for the family in the 1841 census (and later censuses) on the (pay-per-view) ScotlandsPeople site at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
All the best,
JAP
PS: There is a description and photograph of Northfield House at:
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/features/featurefirst1058.html
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4278
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Hi again McLeod/Syme,
I Googled for:
"Northfield House" + Syme
and it led me back to RootsChat!!
To the following old thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,79749
which was started by Creatrix in 2005 and where, it seems, you posted once as 'MacLeod Syme' (not the current 'mcleodsyme'.)
Details of the 1851 census were posted there in Feb 2006 by 'tidybooks'.
Another relevant old thread started by Creatrix (no replies) is at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,79740
Googling for Northfield House gets much information including photos of its 'doocot' (dovecote). The following extract is interesting:
"The house was built in the year 1611 ...
In 1746 Mr A. Nesbit, surgeon, Edinburgh, along with several other properties at Preston, purchased Northfield, and he afterwards sold it to James Syme, slater, Edinburgh. It was for a great number of years occupied by his son, the late Captain Syme, R. N.
In 1890 Mr James M'Neill, Wishaw, became proprietor of Northfield House and estate. ... "
It is from:
http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/arts-festival/html/press/vicinity/228.htm
One wonders who was living at Northfield House at the time of the 1841 census ...
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4278
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A summary of threads about this family:
Some threads about this family:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,79740
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,79749
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=170609 (this thread)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,237141
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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mcleodsyme
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 37
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi JAP
I was hoping when I first posted my inquiry about the Symes that I would hear from a Syme family member but I am getting all my help from rootschat people like you which is just as good .
I did find the 1841 census on ancestry.com and found George and Jane. James Syme and Helen Knox were by G.G.G.Grandparents, their daughter Catharine married my G.G.Grandfather John McLeod and their son George married John's sister Jane McLeod. My nephew has a lap top writing desk which belonged to Commander George Syme very beautiful and a great keep sake.
Thanks for the info about IGI it will certainly help to fill in some gaps in my research about the family, I could never find anything about their marriage or the date. Their son John McLeod Syme and his family are all buried in the cemetery about a mile from my home a small world isn't it.
Thank you very much for all your help
Keep safe
Helen
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1141
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helen,
Am I reading this correctly, George McLeod married his Aunt Jane, his father's sister. I thought this was illegal?
On the IGI there is a submitted record of a George MacLeod marrying a Janet MacLeod on 12 Dec 1872, at Lochs, Ross & Cromarty he was 23 she was 21.
It is on SP as well, both surnames spelt McLeod
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4278
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Hi Tom,
Sorry if I've misunderstood you but ... Are you perhaps mixing up MCLEOD and SYME, and also the time period? Do you have any reason to think that the 1872 MCLEOD m MCLEOD record you quote is connected to the family on this thread? MCLEOD is a very common name - especially in R&C 
This thread mentions that (then Lieutenant) George SYME m Jane MACLEOD in 1827.
And that Catherine SYME (George's sister) m John MCLEOD (said to be Jane's brother though, as I understand, there is currently no documentary proof of this relationship) in 1831.
JAP
PS: Possibly best if material connected to these families is consolidated on the ongoing thread? At:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,237141
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1141
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jap,
I did find the 1841 census on ancestry.com and found George and Jane. James Syme and Helen Knox were by G.G.G.Grandparents, their daughter Catharine married my G.G.Grandfather John McLeod and their son George married John's sister Jane McLeod.
Helen
Catherine married John McLeod, so their issue would have been called George McLeod, and according to quote married John's sister. I take it that means John McLeod his father, hence Jane would be his Aunt. Sorry for the confusion, but thats what it says to me.
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4278
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Tom,
The quote refers to George SYME marrying Jane MCLEOD.
They had a son George SYME.
And the quote refers to John MCLEOD (the putative brother of Jane MACLEOD later SYME) marrying George's sister Catherine SYME.
As far as we know their children were Murdoch MCLEOD and Thomas Syme MCLEOD - no George or Janet.
There is nothing at all in this, as far as I can see, to connect to an 1872 George MCLEOD-Janet MCLEOD marriage (MCLEOD being, it has to be said, an extremely common name).
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1141
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi JAP,
Thanks for clearing that up, there are 3 threads for similar families, and I am getting rather confused at times.
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4278
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Hi Tom,
Confusion? - I know the feeling only too well   
JAP
(Wild weather here in Adelaide - a king tide which is flooding properties.)
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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louislou411
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have been researching for some years the family history of Sergeant William Gunn who was born Achanneccan Farm, Kildonan, Sutherland in 1778. He served for decades in the 94th Foot & Highlanders from 1809. In died in 1861 in Durness, Sutherland. In 1822 at Durness he married Isabella Syme. She is listed on certificates as being the daughter of Captain George Syme RN and Winifred St Leger. Isabella Syme is said to have been born in Liverpool.
The only RN officer named George Syme that I can find entered the Navy on 14 April 1804 and was promoted to Lieutenant on 26 Oct 1813 and on 15 Apr 1856 had the rank of Commander. This man appears to be the same as the George Syme listed at Preston Pans.
As George Syme was about 38-39yo when he married Jane McLeod in 1827 in Edinburgh it is quite possible he was married before. Does anyone know if his marriage entry of 1827 indicate he was a widower?
Isabella Syme was reputedly born in 1796 and this puts a question mark over Captain George Syme RN being her father.
I wonder whether the Commander William Syme RN could be mixed up in this. He was made a Lieutenant on 6 Oct 1794 and a Commander on 16 Sept 1799. According to the Universal Scots Almanac of 1800 - disposition of ships are probably thus of those of late 1799 - Commander W Syme LE PUISSANT with 74 guns. Commander William Syme died in 1808.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
PS According to O'Byrnes "A Naval Biographical Dictionary" of 1849 -
George Syme entered the Navy 14 Apr 1804, as Fst-Cl Vol., on board the DEFIANCE 74, Capt Philip Chas Durham. After sharing as Midshipman in Sir Robt Calder’s action he removed, in Sept 1805, to the SAVAGE 18, Capt Jas. Wilkes Maurice, on the Cork station. He was subsequently employed – from March 1805 until Feb 1810 in the RENOWN 74, Capt PC Durham, in the Channel and also in the Mediterranean, where he united in the pursuit which led to the self-destruction, 26 Oct 1809, of the ships of the line Robuste and Lion – from May 1810 unti Dec 1811, the the BELVIDERA 36, Capt Rich Byron and EURYDICE 24 Capt Jas Bradshaw, on the coast of North America – and, from Aug 1812 until March 1814 in the VICTORY 100, VIGO 74, DEFIANCE 74 and ARGO 41, flag-ships of Admirals Sir Jas Saumarez, Jas. Nicoll Morris, Sir Geo. Hope and Graham Moore, and ARIEL sloop, Capt Danl. Ross, all in the Baltic. Of the vessel last mentioned he was created a Lieutenant 26 Cot 1813. His last appointment was to the ARAXES 36, Capt Geo. Miller Bligh, with whom he served in the West Indies from 7 Sep 1814 until 7 Aug 1816.
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4278
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Hello louislou411 and welcome to RootsChat.
What certificates do you have which indicate that Isabella (SYME) GUNN was the daughter of Capt George SYME & Winifred ST LEGER? Death certs are notoriously unreliable so, yes, perhaps there's an error in her father's name. And does her birthplace come from censuses? What about her birthdate?
Certainly it seems pretty unlikely (as you say) - but NOT impossible - that Capt George SYME of Prestonpans (b 1788, I think) would have fathered a daughter who married in 1822 (I can't find her marriage in the IGI but see that there are children of William GUNN & Isabella SYME/SIM from 1822 to 1828 in Halkirk, Caithness and in 1830 & 1832 in Durness, Sutherland).
Best regards,
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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