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Topic: 1841 & 1851 Census Lok-up St Nicholas, Nottingham (Read 585 times)
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Children
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 580
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Hi,
Could someone please look-up for me on the 1841 census to try and find for me SAMUEL HARDSTAFF. He was born/chr 23 Dec 1805 at ST Nicholas Nottingham and he married CATHERINE MORLEY 24 Dec 1836 in Sutton-in-Ashfield.
Any information will be very helpful, especially if they had any children.
Kind Regards
children
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Heather DD
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2739
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Hiya 
Are you sure that the Samuel baptised 1805, was the same one who married Catherine? I ask because this looks like Samuel and Catherine in 1841
HO107 861 5 36
Reform St. Sutton in Ashfield
Samuel Hardstaff 25 FWK Y
Catherine 22 Y
Eleanor 2 Y
However there is a Samuel Hardstaff in Middlesex 1841/51, married to an Ann and with a birth year 1806/7 Nottinghamshire.
Is it Catherine Morley you're chasing, or the Samuel born 1805?
Heather
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Nottinghamshire: Willmott, Williams, Oldham, Padgett, Burden, Stokes, Huskinson, Tuckwood, Morley, Barnett Lincolnshire: Foster, Dennis, Mowbray Leicestershire: Mowbray,Hudson, Tuckwood Derbyshire: Starbrook Somerset: Willmott, Elliott Cork:Driscoll, Murphy London Surrey:Driscoll, Cheesman London Kent:Cheesman Kent:Cheesman, Davis, West, Hills, Kneller, Bones, Eastup Census information is crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jane Swan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2049
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Hi
I have to query a couple of dates with you:
Marriage Samuel Hardstaff & Catherine Morley 26/12/1836 SUA (Sutton in Asfield)
Baptism Samuel to John & Ann Hardstaff N-N (Nottm St Nicholas) 22/12/1805
I cannot find any children of this couple on the NFHS CDs or burial of Samuel. Not all parishes are transcribed.
I do not know where you got your information from. NFHS are usually reliable but not infallible.
Jane
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Notts: Burrows, Comery, Foster, Beeson, Haynes, Swan. Derbys: Burrows, Comery, Smith Lincs: King. Warks & Salop: Swan, Duffy. Dublin: Duffy, Geraghty, Burgess. Monmouth: Lewis Information contained within Census Lookups is Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Children
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 580
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Hi Jane & Heather,
Thankyou for both of you in replying to my request on Samuel Hardstaff.
I live in Launceston Tasmania and most of my information came from the libuary so that is why I am out by a day on the Samuels Christeneing & marriage. I never knew anything about the NFHS before joining Roots Chat.
It wouldn't suprise me now if I have also Catherine (Morley) Hardstaff Birth/Chr incorrect as well.
It was actually both Samuel Hardstaff was born in 1805 and his wife Catherine Morley who he married in 1836 that I was wanting information on.
I do thankyou for finding me their daughter Eleanor Hardstaff. I do believe that they had 3 other children but I really need the 1851 census to find them. If you can help that would be wonderful, other wise I will put in another request.
Kind Regards
Wendy
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Jane Swan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2049
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Hi Wendy
Baptism SUA 2.5.1819 Catharine to Thomas and Catharine Morley FWK
Is this the correct Catharine (with an 'a')
Jane
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Notts: Burrows, Comery, Foster, Beeson, Haynes, Swan. Derbys: Burrows, Comery, Smith Lincs: King. Warks & Salop: Swan, Duffy. Dublin: Duffy, Geraghty, Burgess. Monmouth: Lewis Information contained within Census Lookups is Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Children
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 580
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Hi Jane,
Thankyou for getting back to me.
It is from the shipping records in which I got the spelling as "Catherine" and not "Catharine" but once again it could be incorrect.
The shipping records also gave me the names of their Samuel's and Catherine other children.
They were Ellen (who could be Eleanor), Catherine Elisabeth, John and Fanny Ann.
All I need to do is to find out when they were born or Christened, so if you can help in any way it would be wonderful.
Thankyou once again, take care
Wendy
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Heather DD
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2739
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Hi again Wendy
I think you have a real problem with this one!
Firstly, I'm not convinced that the Samuel Hardstaff baptised in 1805 is the same Samuel who married Catherine Morley. Catherine's husband in 1841 is 25 and - allowing for rounding down of ages - was therefore born any time between 1811 and 1816? However other ages on the page are not rounded down and so I'd say it would be close to 1816. As I said, there is another Samuel living in Middlesex who is a much better candidate for the 1805 baptism.
Incidentally, and apologies for missing this first time, next door to them in 1841 were :-
Catherine Morley age 57, seamer, not born in county
Elizabeth Morley 15, born in county
The only likely family I can find in 1851 is this one - possibly mother's name mistranscribed  I'm just having one of my gut feelings that this is them!
1851 HO107 2123 375 45
136 New Street Sutton in Ashfield
Charlotte Hardstaff head married 32 parish relief FWK Sutton in Ashfield, as were the children
Ellen dau 12
Catharine dau 4
John son 2
Fanny dau 1 mo
Which begs several questions. Where is Samuel, why the big gap in children and why is she on parish relief?
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Nottinghamshire: Willmott, Williams, Oldham, Padgett, Burden, Stokes, Huskinson, Tuckwood, Morley, Barnett Lincolnshire: Foster, Dennis, Mowbray Leicestershire: Mowbray,Hudson, Tuckwood Derbyshire: Starbrook Somerset: Willmott, Elliott Cork:Driscoll, Murphy London Surrey:Driscoll, Cheesman London Kent:Cheesman Kent:Cheesman, Davis, West, Hills, Kneller, Bones, Eastup Census information is crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Heather DD
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2739
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Oops we posted at the same time and I see my feeling about 1851 is probably correct 
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Nottinghamshire: Willmott, Williams, Oldham, Padgett, Burden, Stokes, Huskinson, Tuckwood, Morley, Barnett Lincolnshire: Foster, Dennis, Mowbray Leicestershire: Mowbray,Hudson, Tuckwood Derbyshire: Starbrook Somerset: Willmott, Elliott Cork:Driscoll, Murphy London Surrey:Driscoll, Cheesman London Kent:Cheesman Kent:Cheesman, Davis, West, Hills, Kneller, Bones, Eastup Census information is crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Children
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 580
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Hi Heather ,
I think I might know why Samuel Hardstaff was not on the 1851 census with his wife and children. At the library I was able to get a copy of some information on Samuel.
On the 15 March 1850 Samuel Hardstaff who was 42 was tried in Nottingham for poaching and was sentence for 7 years. In 1853 he arrived in Hobart Town in Tasmania on the Oriental Queen. His wife Catherine (the shipping records states Catherine and not Charlotte but I am NOT ruling Charlotte out, especially when the 1851 census states Charlotte.) and the 4 children left England on the ship "Irene" in 1856 to Tasmania.
It also stated on the shipping records that Mrs Hardstaff applied to the Parish Office for a parpage to Tasmania.
I am going to ty to find the marriage for CHARLOTTE to Samuel and then I am going to try and find her birth/chr. What do you think?
Wendy
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Jane Swan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2049
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Hi
I did some research for Prue about one of her relatives being transported to Oz. I found the court proceedings and amazingly the witness statements for the 1800s.
If the trial was in Nottm please give me all the details you can. Dates, court etc.
Am I getting too involved? Should I just look up SUA 1835-1843 for the 3 children?
I am getting confused. I will go to the archives, tell me what you want me to look up, that is easiest.
Jane
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Notts: Burrows, Comery, Foster, Beeson, Haynes, Swan. Derbys: Burrows, Comery, Smith Lincs: King. Warks & Salop: Swan, Duffy. Dublin: Duffy, Geraghty, Burgess. Monmouth: Lewis Information contained within Census Lookups is Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Children
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 580
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Hi Jane,
Thankyou so very much for your wonderful kind offer, it is very good of you!!!
I would would to find out more information on Samuel Hardstaff trial, if that is alright with you?
Please don't feel that you are getting yourself too involved as I am a person who truly appreciates any help, no matter how big or small.
The information that I got from the Launceston library in Tasmania is very had to read but I will do my best.
Samuel Hardstaff was tried in Nottingham Ass, on the 15 March 1850, his height was 5.6 3/4, age 42, sentence 7 years, religion C/E, could read & write was married with 4 children. The statement of offense (which is hard to read) states, Throwing a stone at a Greenkeeper?
Phillips from poaching. (I am unable to read the rest)
His trade was a Labourer, Native Place Nottingfield?? Hard too read!!! Could be Sutton?? in Ashfield.
That is all the information that I have, so I hope it will be enough to try and get some more information.
Thankyou once again, take care
Wendy
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pipera
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
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Hi I might be able to be of assistance.
I am the ggg grandson of Samuel Hardstaff and Cahterine Morley. Samuel was indeed a convict he did arrive in Tasmania as a convict. Catherine his wife came to Tasmania per the Emigration Commission from England per the Irene and approval was given 18th January 1856. Catherine and family had free passage coming to Tasmania. She arrived with her children Ellen - Catherine Eliza - John and Fanny Hardstaff. (Two children were born in the colony.) Catherine died on the 22nd May 1861 at Blackforest Deloraine Tasmania she died of cancer of the womb. Samuel her husband died on 31st Aug 1887 at New Norfolk Tasmania he died of Epilepsy.
In England Samuel and Catherine married on the 26th Dec 1836 at Sutton in Ashfield Nottinghamshire. (Phillmores Marriage Index records the marriage.) Vol 93 page 172.
Samuel is the son of John Hardstaff and Ann Kirkland they were married 8th Jan 1782 Bulwell Nottinghamshire. John and Ann had 4 children John, Samuel, George and Mary.
George is the father of Joseph Hardstaff Snr the famous English Cricket Player and his son was Joseph Hardstaff Jnr who played in Australia.
The Hardstaff's came to Tasmania to play cricket and Joe Snr stayed with Ellen Hardstaff (Piper) when he came to Tasmania. Ellen's death records her as the aunt of the famous cricket player Hardstaff.
The rest of Catherine Morleys brothers and sisters married in SIA. One line of the family is now residing in the USA and there is also a strong cricket connection there as well. The Morley family goes back to Chesterfield Derbyshire where Catherine's father is listed as Thomas Morley and her mother is a Catherine Hibbert. There is also a long family connection to Chesterfield Derbyshire going back to the early 1600's.
The oldest family line I have is the Barlows which go back to the 1500's. The Morley - Hibbert families go back before civil registration 1558 in England.
In regard to the Hardstaff's I have our family tree back to the 1600's in Nottinghamshire. The Hardstaff family name changed from Hardstaffe to Hardstaff (orginally not an Englsih name.) I have the complete Hardstaff family tree going back to the 1600's.
I also have a photo of Samuel Hardstaff and Catherine Morley as well.
I hope this helps. If you want any more information please pm me.
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Jane Swan
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2049
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Hi Wendy
It looks like its your lucky day!!!
Well done pipera for getting in touch.
Jane
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Notts: Burrows, Comery, Foster, Beeson, Haynes, Swan. Derbys: Burrows, Comery, Smith Lincs: King. Warks & Salop: Swan, Duffy. Dublin: Duffy, Geraghty, Burgess. Monmouth: Lewis Information contained within Census Lookups is Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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tfarr
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I am also GGGson of Samuel.
Living in NZ
I also have the tree back to 1680.
Came out fo the family to Neal to Farr
Trevor
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JeanLouise
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am also descended from Samuel Hardstaff and would be willing to share information with others.
Jean
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