|
Pages: [1] 2
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: McDougall/ Caskie from Islay (Read 806 times)
|
debi-robo
RootsChat Extra
 Offline
Posts: 94
From one little nut grew the mighty oak tree
|
My GGGG Grandparents were Allan McDougall and Mary Caskie from Portnahaven, Islay
I have their death certs and know of some of their children from Ted Larsons site, however i cannot find their marriage or birth records anywhere.
Can anyone help please ?
Variations of the surnames include McDugald, McDougald, McDongall, Caskey.
Allan McDougall died 21 Dec 1883, 70 years old, parents recorded as Allan McDougall and Mary McFeddgen, Informant was John MacDougall (son).
Mary Caskie McDougall died 31 Aug 1913, 92 years old, parents recorded as John Caskey and Isabella Cameron, informant was John Ferguson (grandson)
children of Allan and Mary from Islay BMD's
Allan McDugald born 9 Dec 1842, Portnahaven
Dugald McDugald born 18 Apr 1847, Portnahaven
Margaret McDugald born 17 Mar 1850, Portnahaven
Neill McDongall born 21 May 1854, Portnahaven
Mary McDougall born 7 June 1857, Portnahaven
Bell McDougald born 5 Nov 1860, Portnahaven
I would sincerely appreciate any help or advice.
Thanks
Debbie
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ROBERTSON/ TRACEY/ MCKELVIE/ SUTHERLAND/ GARDNER/ IMRIE KANE/ MCGEOWN/ MALONE/ MCCULLOCH/ MCDOUGALL/ FERGUSON "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk" |
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
 Online
Posts: 18182
|
Hi Debbie
I've had a look at the two birth records of the childen born after 1855. This normally gives the place and date of marriage of the parents. Interestingly, none of the Portnahaven registrations around those time have this info recorded.
What religion were they?
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
debi-robo
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 94
From one little nut grew the mighty oak tree
|
Hi Gadget
I have no confirmation of Allan and Marys religion but there daughter Mary my ggg gran recorded her religion as protestant in 1902.
Thanks for any assitance you can give!
Debbie
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ROBERTSON/ TRACEY/ MCKELVIE/ SUTHERLAND/ GARDNER/ IMRIE KANE/ MCGEOWN/ MALONE/ MCCULLOCH/ MCDOUGALL/ FERGUSON "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk" |
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 18182
|
Hi Debbie
I have done a very broad search for a marriage but haven't found anything.
My only conclusion is that it was most likely what is called an 'irregular marriage' or common law marriage which were recognised under Scottish Law. It is described here:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&406
Others might have further information on this.
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
debi-robo
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 94
From one little nut grew the mighty oak tree
|
Thanks gadget
Thankyou for taking the time to look, much appreciated!
Debbie
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ROBERTSON/ TRACEY/ MCKELVIE/ SUTHERLAND/ GARDNER/ IMRIE KANE/ MCGEOWN/ MALONE/ MCCULLOCH/ MCDOUGALL/ FERGUSON "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk" |
|
|
runner
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 531
|
Hi Debbie
I see that Gadget was not able to find any traces of marriage for Allan and Mary for you.
It may be that there is no paper record of any sort for them. Remember that you are talking about an island wher Gaelic was the everyday language. Only the educated few spoke English and they would be perhaps the Minister, the school teacher and probably the factor for the estate. Most of the population would not be literate and the majority of the inhabitants would be on crofts and holdings sometimes miles apart. Although Statutory Registration began in 1855 it took rather longer than on the mainland for proper, full recording to be accepted and followed,
Just think! If you had to walk ten miles, often across open moor, up hill and down dale just to register an event, you might think twice about it.
One possible source of information might be estate records from Islay. If they still exist they would likely be lodged amongst the Scottish Archive collections. They would not tell you who married whom, but at least you might find out who, lived where, on the island.
I have more or less given up hope of finding my ancestors on North Uist and that's after I paid for a professional researcher who knows the Islands inside out.
We forget that they lived in a land divided as much by language as by income and learning.
Russell
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Oman in Caithness, Reside in Renfrewshire,
Roan or Rowan Kirkcudbrightshire/Ayrshire
Watsons in Kilrenny and Mortons in Edinburgh.
|
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 18182
|
However Russell,
There is no marriage date on the birth records of the two children born after 1855 - and these were registered in 1857 and 1860 - I've looked at the images.
I think it was most likely an irregular marriage. Sessions minutes might help and, as you say, estate records.
Could you tell me - would the Sessions minutes be written in Gaelic or would the clerk have to be an English speaker?
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
debi-robo
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 94
From one little nut grew the mighty oak tree
|
Hi Gadget and Russell
Thankyou both for your interest and assistance.
Would the session Min's for islay be held at NAS in Edinburgh ?
Also, does anyone know which church they might have attended.
I have found the 1841 census for Mary Caskie parents
Portnahaven, Islay
Balmennach (is this a farm?)
John Caskey, 40, Ag Lab , b. Argyll
Isabella Caskey, 50, , b. Argyll
John Caskey, 30, , b. Argyll
Mary McDugald, 18, ,b. Argyll
Janet McIntyre, 6, ,b. Argyll
It seems Mary was already married to Allan McDugald at this stage, though i can find no trace of him anywhere.
It is pretty obvious that i don't know much about what life on Islay would have been like at the time, can you recommend some informative websites please and maybe some maps.
Thanks again
Debbie
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ROBERTSON/ TRACEY/ MCKELVIE/ SUTHERLAND/ GARDNER/ IMRIE KANE/ MCGEOWN/ MALONE/ MCCULLOCH/ MCDOUGALL/ FERGUSON "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk" |
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 18182
|
Hi Debbie
There are quite a few Allan McDougall's around at the time.The problem is that the ages were usually rounded so someone given as 20 could be between 20 and 24, etc. If he had been a fisherman, I would have suggested that he could be at sea, but I notice that he is recorded as a weaver on the birth certs.
The Sessions minutes are in Edinburgh. It might be worth googling to see what is available for Islay though.
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
capricorn
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 655
|
Hi All,
If I remember correctly, the marriage details on births certs. from 1856 weren't entered, I believe the marriage details were re-introduced in 1861.
regards
Liz
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Thrall
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 78
|
Hi Russell, I think you´re right. The minutes of the kirk session at Kilchrenan in the mid eighteenth century, which I have an interest in, are in English but I am sure that the great majority of the parish used the Gaelic. Just to see the names of the crofts gives an indication of the problems of Anglicizing place names.
Incidentally, these kirk session minutes can be a gold mine, as I think I have mentioned before.
Good hunting,
Thrall
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Freckle
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 96
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Debbie, I have an Isabella McDougall married to James Silver Vic Aust. At least thats what my grandfathers death cert. says. There is also an Isabell mentioned in the police index.Victoria Aust. I have been unable to locate any sort of certs. for any of them, but I think my grandfather might have lied.. Cheers Freckle
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Bain,Calder,Innes,McBeth,Manson,Sinclair(Caithness)Fletcher,McKellar(Renfrewshire)Robertson(Perthshire)Davey,Braund,Prouse,Jewell,Souch,Harvey,Rendle(Devon)Rettallick, Harvey(Cornwall)Philipofski (Germany, Australia)Fitzsimmons,Chance (Ireland,NZ)Flint,Fowler,Jeal,Freeman,Peters,Morris,Potterton,Pullen(Sussex,Surrey)Minchington(Australia)
|
|
|
debi-robo
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 94
From one little nut grew the mighty oak tree
|
Sorry Freckle but i dont know if any of my McDougalls emigrated.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ROBERTSON/ TRACEY/ MCKELVIE/ SUTHERLAND/ GARDNER/ IMRIE KANE/ MCGEOWN/ MALONE/ MCCULLOCH/ MCDOUGALL/ FERGUSON "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk" |
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2
|
|
|
|
|
