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Topic: French Relatives - Where do I start? (Read 2108 times)
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hcoldron
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 226
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, I'm tracing my partner's side of our tree, and have a bit of a dilemma. His grandfather is French (DUMONT).
We're hoping to get some more information when his parents visit a surviving sibling.
Are there French Census records / BMD archives like in the UK?
Where do I find these?
Are they in French?
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Bassham, Booth, Chambers, Cobb, Coldron, Courts, Dernie, Farmery, Hill, Houghton, Lawson, Marsh, Snowden, Ulyatt, Wagstaff in Lincs/Yorks/Notts
Cottrell, Grice, Walley, Wade in Staffs
Dumont, Hall in London
Dumont in Tolouse-France
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jorose
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2932
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For French records you will need to know which town they were from. Census records generally aren't used for genealogy as none are indexed and you have to go to the departmental archives to get hold of them. (Consider the 'department' like the county here in England, the departmental archives - 'archives departmentales' are the big archives but generally will not do research, although a few have records online.)
The basic source, post 1792, are the BMD records (like English civil registration records). Everything is in French (exceptions: very early church records which will be in old French or Latin or if your ancestor came from an area which was part of Germany at some point in which case some records are in German)
There are what are called 'tables decennales' - ten year indexes, which list all births, marriages, and deaths in a particular commune for a space of ten years. Because these are organised at the commune level and there isn't any sort of departmental/national indexing like the BMD indexes here, you have to know the commune you are searching for first. But if you do know the area then it is fairly easy to find people in this way.
The records follow a fairly standard format and can be understood with basic French (like mine!). An Acte de Naissance will give the date (+time) of birth, the date (+time) that the birth was registered, the name (and usually age and occupation) of the father, the name (inc. maiden, and usually age, sometimes occupation) of the mother, say if the child is from a legitimate marriage, and also give the names of two witnesses, often with their relationship to the child.
The Acte de Mariage often has a lot of information, which I've found varies over the years and depending who is doing the recording, but you almost always get the names of both parents for each spouse, including where they are living at the time, and if they are deceased sometimes it will say when/where. Often you will even get the exact date/place of birth for those who are marrying. There are four witnesses for a marriage act of which usually two are from the groom's side and two from the bride's side and they are often relatives as well, with relationships given. (I have one case where there was a fourth cousin as one of the witnesses - I am related to, I think, everyone in about a five mile radius of a particular village in Vendee, and they all married each other...)
One exception: if someone is marrying for a second time they will list them as, say, 'Jean Dumont widower of Marie LeBlanc', and not give the parents. Then you have to find the first marriage to get the parents! (Women kept using their maiden name, so Jeanne Dumont widow of Pierre LeBlanc would also be something you might see)
Death records seldom give a cause of death, but will often give parents names (if known - less likely for older folks, obviously), and mention the spouse. Two witnesses again, often the father, son or son in law is the one who registers the death but I have some in which the neighbours were the ones listed - and they knew her parents' names! Women are usually listed in these records under their maiden names.
Also, for about 12 years from 1793, civil records are dated using the French Republican Calendar, so look out for that if you end up going back that far:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar
1792 and before, the main source is church records. The further back you go the less info these give, unfortunately, and they are not indexed. If you, like me, have families who move freely between five or so different communes, each with their own set of records, it becomes a real pain in the behind.  I am very lucky in that the Vendee archives are one of those who have their records online (if you want to look at examples of civil records, go to http://archives.vendee.fr/recherche/ and hit 'etat civil' )
Church records list baptisms rather than births and burials rather than deaths, and for larger cities there will be lots of parishes which makes it more of a struggle (much like trying to do research in London without any of the indexes). Hope and pray you don't have relatives from Paris, as well; a lot of records were lost in a fire there AND you'll have to check through all the different parts of the city and the numerous parishes there if that's the case.
This entire message was too long! I'll split it up into two bits: next, where to actually get the records!
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jorose
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2932
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Now as to how you get your hands on these: you can write to the Mairie of the commune in question, particularly this is necessary for more recent records (there's a 100-year rule there,too, which covers bmd records).
http://genealogy.about.com/library/blfrenchletter.htm - this is a good form letter, I've used this one. Although they say you can write to the archives in my experience the Mairie is a better choice, unless you know the Archives in question are willing to do research for you. It takes a couple of months to get a response, though.
Otherwise (and presuming you're not in luck and the department in question does not have records online), the easiest way to do things is via the LDS. I've done this for years which are not online (anything post-1855 for the Vendee), and for Belgian records.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp - is the LDS catalogue, and if you enter the name of the place you are looking for it will tell you what records they have. For example, for Givrand, Vendee, France, they have civil records (1796-1883) and church records (1668-1792). These are spread over several microfilms, and the indexes for the civil records are on another microfilm as well. Although, if you know approximately the date you are looking for, there are yearly indexes in the civil records, at the end of each year, so it may not be necessary to search the tables decennales. The tables are useful if you are looking for, say, all the Dumonts born in a certain period to try and find siblings or if you have the birth of one child and want to quickly find out when the marriage was.
Also look out for 'Cercle de Généalogie' which is the equivalent of a genealogy society for a certain area, some of which have indexes and research services for members. Once you have the name of the town your Dumonts were from, try putting that into www.geneanet.com to see if there are others researching the same family - there are a lot of records from French genealogists indexed here so you may be in luck.
http://www.patro.com/ has some records online - you search for a surname and it tells you what departments it has records for, and then which communes in a given department it has records, and how many. To get hold of the actual records, however, requires payment, and as they don't have any for my areas I never worked out exactly how the payment system works, I believe it's a 'credit' system like pay as you go sites such as 1837online.
One last good site: this is a genealogical word list which covers most of the words you'll need to puzzle out French records:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/rg/guide/WLFrench.asp
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hcoldron
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 226
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Gosh, that sounds ever so complicated! I've barely got to grips with the UK BMD!
Well, at least I have a start point now, thanks!
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Bassham, Booth, Chambers, Cobb, Coldron, Courts, Dernie, Farmery, Hill, Houghton, Lawson, Marsh, Snowden, Ulyatt, Wagstaff in Lincs/Yorks/Notts
Cottrell, Grice, Walley, Wade in Staffs
Dumont, Hall in London
Dumont in Tolouse-France
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GlitteringPrize
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp - is the LDS catalogue, and if you enter the name of the place you are looking for it will tell you what records they have. For example, for Givrand, Vendee, France, they have civil records (1796-1883) and church records (1668-1792). These are spread over several microfilms, and the indexes for the civil records are on another microfilm as well. Although, if you know approximately the date you are looking for, there are yearly indexes in the civil records, at the end of each year, so it may not be necessary to search the tables decennales. The tables are useful if you are looking for, say, all the Dumonts born in a certain period to try and find siblings or if you have the birth of one child and want to quickly find out when the marriage was.
Hi
I am trying to find a birth in Calais in France around 1872, have looked at the above link, and am a bit confused  sorry 
Does this mean they have all the births for that area on the Family Search website? I have searched and found nothing under the name and country as France.
Would appreciate any help or advise anyone has on searching, I have tried some of the sites and also googled for some websites, but can't seem to be able to find anything.
I am looking for William Murrell whose mother (unknown) would have travelled from England to France to give birth, and then back to England again afterwards. His father was Frederick.
Many Thanks
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BOYD (../Croydon/Frederick G b 1892, Silas b 1859&15);
DIXON (LIN/Barton on Humber/Alice b 1884, John b1857, Richard b 1819);
MCDONNELL (YKS/Leeds, Kingston Upon Hull/Peter b 1842, Edward b 1883);
MURDY (DUR/Hetton, Hough'n L S, Lambton, Sunderland/Thomas b1822, William H A b 1869);
PALFREY (LND/Paddington/Linda M b1885);
TAYLOR (NBL/Ellingham/Jonathan b1841, Moses b 1800, John
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jorose
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2932
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The link is a catalog of microfilms, as the vast majority of French records are not online (it depends on the department - some of the departmental archives have large amounts of info online, some don't even have their own website). You look for the place you are researching, and then order the films through an LDS center.
Your situation is a little different, as you appear to be dealing with a British family who were temporarily in Calais. There are some indexes in Britain for overseas births but I think the longer that the family were Calais residents the more likely it is that they would register their children with the French authorities rather than the British.
I can't find any William Murrell b. about 1872 France on the English censuses, though, or any possible siblings for him.
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GlitteringPrize
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jorose
Thanks for your help!
Apparently the family were French, but lived in England and took poor old William's mother back across to France to give birth to her children.
I'll check out ordering the films through the LDS as it looks like they cover 1872 on those films.
I too, couldn't find a French Born William on the census, or any siblings, or father Frederick. I have some information which points to them not being French at all, but the family history has the family being French and going back and forth from here to there to have their children.
Do you think it possible that they may have registered his birth in France and England?
Many Thanks
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BOYD (../Croydon/Frederick G b 1892, Silas b 1859&15);
DIXON (LIN/Barton on Humber/Alice b 1884, John b1857, Richard b 1819);
MCDONNELL (YKS/Leeds, Kingston Upon Hull/Peter b 1842, Edward b 1883);
MURDY (DUR/Hetton, Hough'n L S, Lambton, Sunderland/Thomas b1822, William H A b 1869);
PALFREY (LND/Paddington/Linda M b1885);
TAYLOR (NBL/Ellingham/Jonathan b1841, Moses b 1800, John
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GlitteringPrize
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 124
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi birtles
Thanks for your help! I'm waiting on some more information to confirm Calais 100% and may well give the franglais a go 
I have already checked out Find My Past and haven't found anything LOL I'd guess William's mother had already had all her children by the time the records start in 1890 for passenger lists. The family I have as a possible (but not listed on the censuses as born in France) all the children were born by 1884.
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BOYD (../Croydon/Frederick G b 1892, Silas b 1859&15);
DIXON (LIN/Barton on Humber/Alice b 1884, John b1857, Richard b 1819);
MCDONNELL (YKS/Leeds, Kingston Upon Hull/Peter b 1842, Edward b 1883);
MURDY (DUR/Hetton, Hough'n L S, Lambton, Sunderland/Thomas b1822, William H A b 1869);
PALFREY (LND/Paddington/Linda M b1885);
TAYLOR (NBL/Ellingham/Jonathan b1841, Moses b 1800, John
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muriel POOLE
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello
you can try
http://www.gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php?showforum=3
may be can someone help you
it was good for me and my Poole family members
Muriel Poole
Moderator Comment: URL edited to act as link
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« Last Edit: Sunday 04 May 08 16:16 BST (UK) by Berlin-Bob »
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