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Topic: CARTER family in Melbourn in 1861 Census (Read 1344 times)
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Keith Sherwood
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Goodness, Jan,
That has to be the Robert CARTER born 1825/6, and the indications in his apprenticeship description that the CARTER family were making the move to furniture, away from the clothing business. Perhaps someone saw the writing on the wall in those Pre- and Early-Victorian years that cabinet making and furniture would be the next sure thing to be in business with...
keith
p.s. I think the first, fleeting mention of the word furniture as opposed to clothes - or perhaps it was cabinet-making - for their business interests came in an 1836 Directory that I looked at yesterday at the Guildhall Library..
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Keith Sherwood
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I'm also beginning to wonder how long a chain of Robert CARTER's we can unearth, with so many examples of Robert CARTER senior and junior in the various records. Of course the family firm was called Robert CARTER and Sons - and I'm also trying to imagine how long it had been established...
Think I also spotted a 1752 baptism for a Robert CARTER in the right area, but not absolutely certain...
Phew, this is hot work at the moment.
keith
Just looked it up on the IGI and it's a 1756 baptism, with the identifying "Rosemary Lane"...
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Keith Sherwood
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Would the "Rosemary Lane" perhaps refer to a Nonconformist Chapel of some kind, rather than the street in which the family lived...?
keith
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Keith Sherwood
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Sheila,
Thanks so much for looking. I'll get the relevant batch number/s printed off and try and sort out that particular generation from 1786 onwards...
keith
NB For the record, the IGI lists baptisms of children of Robert and Lydia: Robert in 1788; Lydia in 1790; a Joseph in 1792 and 1794; a William in 1797; an Elizabeth in 1798; a Mary Ann in 1801...
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janan
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Hi Keith
Have you tried searching the proceedings of the Old Bailey? Six pages of various Robert Carters come up - victims, jurors, mentioned in passing and defendants - don't know if any are yours but some do appear in the right area. I found one of mine - someone stole 2 of his stoves (he was a brasier) and he had to chase after him to get them back and managed to apprehend the fellow as well 
Look forward to hearing any further updates on your Robert Carters
Jan 
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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Keith Sherwood
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Janan,
Yes I have looked there - isn't it a brilliant site, bringing the past vividly to life with names of characters and names of long-gone alleyways and streets! - and I only came across an 1811 case where clothes are stolen. However, if you say there are several more references to a Robert CARTER I'll revisit the website and search more thoroughly...
I even came across a picture of the Minories Viaduct just now, in the description of the opening of the Broad Street Railway in 1851 - must have caused much disruption in that area at the time:
http://www.mernick.co.uk/thhol/camdento.html
keith
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Keith Sherwood
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Janan, If you're out there!
Could the address of your post 41 on this thread possibly have read "Devonshire" Street. I'm trying to piece the geography of the whereabouts of the CARTER family in the 1841 Census together...
Keith
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janan
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Hi
It could well be Devonshire - I've had another squint and it is definitely an n before the shire and I think starts with a D comparing it with the D's he uses for Do, the gap between D and n is right length for evo and there aren't any up or down strokes. Unfortunately he only writes it once then dittos so no chance to read it clearer elsewhere 
Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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Keith Sherwood
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Jan,
You've pretty much convinced me! Location would be a likely one. Amazing finds of yours in that 1841 Census for the CARTER family, with two of the children with the grandparents in Hackney, one young daughter wih family friends (possibly), the young apprentice Robert making his way as a cabinet maker elsewhere, and father and mother at 58, Lamb's Conduit Street, which today seems to house all kinds of interesting activities, close to Gt. Ormond St. Hospital. Must be a substantial place and worth a visit, surely...
By the 1851 the mother Elizabeth was already incarcerated in an asylum. Loads more to unearth...!
keith
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janan
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Glad to have helped - keep us updated on your fascinating Carters 
Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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Keith Sherwood
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Jan,
You certainly have...and I'm getting quite excited about reading the bits about Rosemary Lane in Mayhew's London. A couple of chapters entitled: "Street Sellers of Petticoat and Rosemary Lanes", and "Rosemary Lane". I reckon the CARTER's possibly started up here and graduated to The Minories. Rootschatter Loo, on another thread I started about the definition of "Slop-seller" brought my attention to the book that I hadn't realised has sat on my bookcase unread for a couple of years.
I do love the reading about the background to all one's ancestors' fleeting footprints...
keith
Apparently, even by the time Mayhew was writing his descriptions of London life in the 1850's-1860's Rosemary Lane had been renamed Royal Mint Street. No wonder I couldn't find it on a modern A-Z!
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janan
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Keith
You may already have this
"Northgrove House, an asylum built by Dr Wm Milstead Harmer was established in 1839. It was burnt down in 1890 and all that remains is a brick gatepost on Northgrove Road marking the former entrance to the building"
from
http://www.tunbridgewells.gov.uk/upload/public/attachments/12/Hawkhurst_Highgate_CAA.pdf
Anyway as it looks as if Elizabeth was already in an asylum in 1841 - this would fit with her have been 32 years a lunatic in 1871 and also is spot on for
her becoming ill in 1839 which is when Joseph was born so looks like Puerpal Psychosis (illness with mania/severe depression and/or hallucinations and delusions) was her most likely illness.
This might be of interest
http://www.alphagalileo.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=readannouncement&announcementid=300305&
Back to where I was thought she might have been in Northgrove house 41/51 but have popped along there in 51 and she isn't 
Jan
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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Keith Sherwood
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Hi again, Janan,
So good to have another soul worrying away at these CARTER's, and particularly the whereabouts of the poor unfortunate Elizabeth (b.circa 1799)! Had it slipped your mind that on post 25 of this thread you suggested that there was an E.C. aged the correct age, born in Kent, in the St Luke's Asylum in 1851? I think this was actually the year this institution opened, but I'm not 100% sure...
Would be amazing to spot her somewhere in the 1841, but it's not quite so simple to interpret as subsequent Censuses, is it?
Hoping to receive some more documents through the post from the ERO soon that might pin down Robert CARTER (b.1762?), Elizabeth's father-in-law in Chigwell. Also hoping to make a trip soon to Chelmsford to examine various documents from the Chigwell Parish Chest; perhaps also a visit to Chigwell itself to see what The King's Head is like (terminus for the Aldgate to Chigwell flyer from the late 18thC onwards)
keith
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