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Topic: YOUNG or WILKS in Worcester or TUDGEY (Read 570 times)
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honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
 Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
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Hello
I know this is a bit after the fact but I was wondering whether the Tudgay/Tudgeys were of Romany stock but can't really find any conclusive evidence.
Priscilla Tudgay was my ggggg grandmother. I don't know when she was born as she was baptised along with her sisters as a married adult. Her father was Thomas Tudgay and her mother was Mary Tudgey  .
So she was married to John Morgan in 1809 in Corsley, Wiltshire and was baptised in 1813 as Priscilla Morgan Tudgay. Thomas Tudgay's parents were John Tudgay of Kingston Deverill and Priscilla (who sometimes called herself Elizabeth).
John & Priscilla/Elizabeth also had two boys called Moses, one of whom died when he was a little boy when a cart upturned and killed him. He is called Moses Todkey in the death register.
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Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
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honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
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Hello
I just wrote a long reply and it unexpectedly quit on me.
I had never seen the second site, thank you. I have got a lot of my information from the first one, it's really good.
I am descended from John (b) on this page. John & Priscilla/Elizabeth had Thomas Tudgay who had 4 daughters all of whom were baptised on the same day as adults (2 of them were already married). I'm descended from his daughter Priscilla.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brian.taylor19/files/leighonmendip.htm
My only real Romani connection to the Tudgays is that Priscilla married into the Morgans who were travellers. It is possible that she was a non-Romani who married in but I have heard speculation from several quarters now that the Tudgays were in some way related to the Romani Tugbys.
I only have photos of Priscilla g & gg grandsons (my great grandad and gg grandad). Perhaps you can see a family resemblence...just a little bit distant I know  but I love photos, they really can tell you a lot.
This is Albert Edward Morgan Snr. (Priscilla was his great grandmother)
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00001-3.jpg
And Albert Edward Morgan Jnr.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00001-2.jpg
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Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
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honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
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Sorry I didn't make it clear in the above post (which was mainly gibberish sorry) but your William's ancestor William was my John's brother.
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Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
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Jamie H
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 282
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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So you are descended from:
b) John Tudgey of Kingston Deverill, christened 27/08/1742, husband of Elizabeth; the eldest son of John Tudgey, christened 19/02/1694, in Longbridge Deverill, wife Priscilla; eighth child of James Tudgy/Tudgey, m 1677 at Longbridge Deverill.
So, you mean that my William Tudgy who married Mary Fawlett (or Follett) in 1852 was a son of a William Tudgy who was brother to your John Tudgey?
Not sure if I should be able to work this out from Brian Taylor's website – I am easily confused but I wondered if you could give me any details of this John and his brothers to help me understand. Do you have the information from a separate source to Brian Taylor?
Re the second website – did you notice the Tudgey who married into the Marshall family? I suspect that the Marshalls could have been Romany.
I didn't know that there were Romany TUGBYs. Can you give me details of those?
Thanks for the photos. The second one bears a great resemblance to my own father, but I don't think we'd have a direct link with the Morgans, would we?
If you can help me link in my William into the family tree it'd be great because so far we've come to a brick wall with William's birth.
I'd be interested to learn more of your Romany Morgans.
This is so exciting 
Jamie
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TUDGEY; STEVENS (Surrey); SMITH (Surrey, Essex, Norfolk); WILKS (Worcs); YOUNG (Worcs); COWLEY (Ireland, Surrey); GROVE (Hampshire); REEVES (Gloucs. Worcs.); RETFORD (Hampshire, Surrey); FAIRBROTHER (Kent); WEBB (Surrey, Bucks); WILLIAMS (Pembrokeshire). Nicol (Scotland);DOLLOWAY (Kent); BOX (Worcs).
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honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
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I'm sorry, what I said was really confusing. 
Right I will try and explain it better...
I am descended from James Tudgay of Longbridge Deverill. He had a bunch of children including William (c.1692) and John (c.1694).
Brian's website says that the William is possibly the ancestor of your William. John is the father of John Tudgay who (with Priscilla/Elizabeth - she used two names) had Thomas who fathered Priscilla who married John Morgan.
Your father is blood related to both of the people in the photos if he is from the Tudgay line as both of them are descended from Priscilla Tudgay. So your father and them would share the ancestor James Tudgay if Brian's supposition is right. I'm pretty certain all Tudgays are related anyway actually.
I had seen the Marshall and had wondered the same thing. I might look into the Romany Marshalls to see if there is any connection with the area.
I know very little of the Tugbys but I am going to look into those as well. I have a bunch of old Romany Routes that I am sure have information on them. I will look into the Marshalls and Tugbys this morning and get back to you on them.
Regarding the Romany name thing as well, I had also heard the theory that the name Tudgay came from the Romany word for milk & whey (can't remember exactly).
The Morgans ended up living in the Notting Hill slums. They moved all the way to London but went back to baptise some of their children in various places in Wiltshire. They were mainly masons which isn't a particularly Romany job but I have seen Romany masons several times before. They were also bird and dog dealers...a bit of a weird job, hawkers, labourers and then worked in the laundry.
The man who you said looked like you father married a Romany girl (she was actually a quarter Spanish/Portuguese Jew as well but mainly Romany). Her father was a marine store dealer, bricklayer's labourer, watercress seller, hawker/general dealer.
They used to have an old Romany vardo wheel in the back garden but it has sadly disappeared.
I have posted this link in another thread but this is the area that Priscilla's descendants (the Morgans) lived. http://worley.org.uk/NOTTING%20DALE.htm
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Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
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Jamie H
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 282
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Please don't apologise for your explanation — it's more my difficulty in sorting everyone out. I am starting a family tree with the James Tudgay and the two Williams on it, to try and get it straight in my mind. Though, Brian Taylor says he is speculating re the relationship of the Williamses. For now, I'll assume he is correct and see where that gets me. There must be some way of checking, but I think one would have to be on the spot to look in old libraries and archives, etc.
We do have some Tugbys in our family. One of my distant cousins, descended from William Tudgy and Mary Fawlett (Follett) has a John Tudgey or Tugby who married Rebecca Aldridge in Hampshire, 1819, and she found a lot of Tugby's (plus some amazing variations on the name) in Hordle, Hants.
How do you send a photograph? I can't work that out either!
In our Tudgey family we have a legend that the Tudgey ancestor came to England from Spain (with the Armada) or from Brittany.
Does Romany dark colouring pop up in different generations? Dark colouring in our family seems to have done that, and also in a family I was in touch with who is connected to the Marshall/Tudgey line.
Jamie
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TUDGEY; STEVENS (Surrey); SMITH (Surrey, Essex, Norfolk); WILKS (Worcs); YOUNG (Worcs); COWLEY (Ireland, Surrey); GROVE (Hampshire); REEVES (Gloucs. Worcs.); RETFORD (Hampshire, Surrey); FAIRBROTHER (Kent); WEBB (Surrey, Bucks); WILLIAMS (Pembrokeshire). Nicol (Scotland);DOLLOWAY (Kent); BOX (Worcs).
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honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
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Please don't apologise for your explanation — it's more my difficulty in sorting everyone out. I am starting a family tree with the James Tudgay and the two Williams on it, to try and get it straight in my mind. Though, Brian Taylor says he is speculating re the relationship of the Williamses. For now, I'll assume he is correct and see where that gets me. There must be some way of checking, but I think one would have to be on the spot to look in old libraries and archives, etc. We do have some Tugbys in our family. One of my distant cousins, descended from William Tudgy and Mary Fawlett (Follett) has a John Tudgey or Tugby who married Rebecca Aldridge in Hampshire, 1819, and she found a lot of Tugby's (plus some amazing variations on the name) in Hordle, Hants. How do you send a photograph? I can't work that out either! In our Tudgey family we have a legend that the Tudgey ancestor came to England from Spain (with the Armada) or from Brittany. Does Romany dark colouring pop up in different generations? Dark colouring in our family seems to have done that, and also in a family I was in touch with who is connected to the Marshall/Tudgey line. Jamie
Hello, I'm very interested that you have found the Tugby name used as a variant to Tudgey (the variants are crazy aren't they I've found Todkey, Tadgey, Tidgey, Dodkey, Tudgey, Tudgee, Tudgy, Todgey...the list goes on.
I looked yesterday for the Tugbys in the Romany Routes but they are only in copies I don't own typical.
When I was looking though my Romany records I had already marked out the Marshall entries which means they must come somewhere else in the family as well. I'm going to look further in to the Marshall line as I'm finally organised now. I had to have a big sort out.
It's funny that there is this Tudgay legend of the name probably to explain away the dark looks. My great grandmother used to say, and I quote, her grandmother "had been had up against the tiles by the Italian lodger".
The darkness is pretty consistent in my family until they started to marry into the gorje population (in my case Spanish/Portuguese Jews, Hugenot French, Irish and English). My sister is dark as are two of my three uncles while the other uncle is blonde and blue eyed.
It should be pretty easy to add a photo. You can either click on the attach a photograph link at the bottom of the reply box or you can open a photobucket account and just link from there...I would love to see pictures if you had any. 
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Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
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vimira
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 39
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've seen the following baptisms in Whitwick Leics, if it's any help -
21 Mar 1830 William s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
30 Sep 1832 Thomas s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
13 Oct 1833 William Gregory s/o John & Sarah Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
16 Oct 1836 Hannah d/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
30 Jun 1844 Hosea s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringstone, Hawker
28 Oct 1846 Alfred Isaac s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
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Elliott Drury Mills Harwood/Haywood Smith Bailey Lincs/Notts/Leics
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honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
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I've seen the following baptisms in Whitwick Leics, if it's any help -
21 Mar 1830 William s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
30 Sep 1832 Thomas s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
13 Oct 1833 William Gregory s/o John & Sarah Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
16 Oct 1836 Hannah d/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
30 Jun 1844 Hosea s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringstone, Hawker
28 Oct 1846 Alfred Isaac s/o William & Mary Tugby, Thringston, Hawker
Thank you so much, that is great.
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Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
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Jamie H
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 282
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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I've posted a query re attaching photos on the FAQ section of the Beginners bit. So, I'm hoping to learn what I'm doing wrong.
Meanwhile, re the TUDGEYs I've just come across these websites:
http://onupalong.net/FamHist/treediags/fam-tudg.gif
and
http://onupalong.net/FamHist/treediags/fam-tudg-others.gif
They give your family and mine. It doesn't show where my William TUDGEY fits in — that's the brick wall. I'm from the bit where Elizabeth Retford and Henry Tudgey marry. And, notice that it says it is “Tudby” in register! Also, there are Tudby's in the tree too.
Any ideas on how my William, at the top of my tree, fits in will be gratefully received
Jamie
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TUDGEY; STEVENS (Surrey); SMITH (Surrey, Essex, Norfolk); WILKS (Worcs); YOUNG (Worcs); COWLEY (Ireland, Surrey); GROVE (Hampshire); REEVES (Gloucs. Worcs.); RETFORD (Hampshire, Surrey); FAIRBROTHER (Kent); WEBB (Surrey, Bucks); WILLIAMS (Pembrokeshire). Nicol (Scotland);DOLLOWAY (Kent); BOX (Worcs).
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honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
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Ha, God what a lot of Tudgeys, I'll be there forever adding them onto my family tree.
Thank you though, that is great to have all those new names. I will try and help you work out how William fits in, I hate brick walls. With travellers it is just a world of brick wall unfortunately. They didn't like formalising stuff in general. 
It will be great to work out how he fits in but it's really frustrating not being able to find his baptism. I've looked everywhere I know but there must be something that will click it into place.
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Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
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My_father.gif