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Topic: Trying to trace Brophy family tree. (Read 727 times)
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sarah
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Posts: 770
One of the RootsChat Caretakers
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Hello Acorn,
You should be able to find Patrick on the 1881 Census!
Have you found him already or which country do you expect to find him?
Regards
Sarah 
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Acorn
RootsChat Extra
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Hello Sarah,
I suspect that he was still in Irelend in 1881, the problem is we do not know when he was born, 1875 is a guess. I was hoping to be able to find his date of birth so that I could find his parents names etc.
If you think he may be on the 1881 census, would that cover the Dublin area, and if so how would I access this information.
I've seen websites like ancestry.com but they all request you to subscribe for a fee. I imagine there is no guarantee to be able to find the information you require, and it could turn out to be a very expensive waste of time.
Any advice is appreciated.
Regards
John
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Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.
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munchies
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 651
Elias Saundie (Soundie) and Jane Heeley
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These are all the Patrick Brophy listed in 1871 in Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 49 Ireland Head Eccleston Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 14 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Son Eccleston Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 33 Ireland Head Liverpool Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 28 Cavan, Ireland Head Liverpool Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 14 Ireland Head Manchester Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 33 Ireland Head Salford Lancashire
these are all Patrick Brophy from ireland in 1881
1. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Boarder Gender: Male Birth: <1850> Ireland
2. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son Gender: Male Birth: <1856> Ireland
3. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Patient Gender: Male Birth: <1821> Ireland
4. Patrick BROPHEY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Head Gender: Male Birth: <1831> Ireland
5. Patrick BROPHEY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Lodger (Head) Gender: Male Birth: <1842> Ireland
6. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Head Gender: Male Birth: <1825> Dublin, Ireland
and these are all the patricks born 1875 +/- 20 years
records to download - (50 maximum)
1. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son Gender: Male Birth: <1856> Ireland
2. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son Gender: Male Birth: <1873> Liverpool, Lancashire, England
3. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son Gender: Male Birth: <1880> St Helens, Lancashire, England
These are all the Patrick Brophy listed in 1891
Brophy, Patrick 18 Liverpool, Lancashire Son Liverpool Lancashire
Brophy, Patrick 64 IRL Boarder Liverpool Lancashire
Brophy, Patrick 68 IRL Inmate Newton Lancashire
These are all the Patrick Brophy' listed for 1901 in lancashire if you think any of these look likely give me a shout and i will post more details
Patrick Brophy 6 Queens county, Ireland Nephew Birkdale Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 22 Ireland Head Bolton Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 54 Tipperary, Ireland Head Liverpool St Martin Lancashire
Patrick Brophy 20 St Helens, Lancashire, England Son St Helen Lancashire
Donna
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Surname interests Soundie, Brookfield, Healey/Heeley, Frost, Handley, Goodall Weaver, Evans, Pagett, Waywell/Whaywell, Haimes, Jones, Roberts, Cummins Ryder, Bleasdale and Foley, Jackson, Robinson, Calvert and Grayson.
Searching in Liverpool, Shropshire, London, Worcester and Holywell, Stafford and Cheshire. (and eventually in Ireland) :-)
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munchies
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 651
Elias Saundie (Soundie) and Jane Heeley
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This is the most likely one based on age although he wasn't actually born in Ireland but his father was. See what you think in 1881
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Joseph BROPHY Head M Male 38 Ireland Blackash Furnace Man (Manf Ch)
Elizabeth BROPHY Wife M Female 37 Ireland
William BROPHY Son Male 15 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Shop Messenger
Emily A. BROPHY Daur Female 12 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
Ellen BROPHY Daur Female 10 Flint, Flint, Wales Scholar
Patrick BROPHY Son Male 8 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
Joseph BROPHY Son Male 4 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
Dwelling 7 Calvin St
Census Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341862
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3600 / 75
Page Number 8
1891
3 Calvin St, Liverpool. RG12/2903, Folio 85, Page 33.
Brophy, Elizabeth 53 IRL Wife Liverpool Lancashire
Brophy, Emma 21 Liverpool, Lancashire Daughter Liverpool Lancashire
Brophy, Joseph 54 IRL Head Liverpool Lancashire
Brophy, Joseph 14 Liverpool, Lancashire Son Liverpool Lancashire
Brophy, Patrick 18 Liverpool, Lancashire Son Liverpool Lancashire
Address is 3 Calvin Street and occupation is ships fireman
Donna
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 19 January 05 16:36 GMT (UK) by copyright_editor2 »
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Surname interests Soundie, Brookfield, Healey/Heeley, Frost, Handley, Goodall Weaver, Evans, Pagett, Waywell/Whaywell, Haimes, Jones, Roberts, Cummins Ryder, Bleasdale and Foley, Jackson, Robinson, Calvert and Grayson.
Searching in Liverpool, Shropshire, London, Worcester and Holywell, Stafford and Cheshire. (and eventually in Ireland) :-)
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Acorn
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 20
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Thank you very much for going to all that trouble, I am still unable to narrow it down but may be if I give you more information it might help.
Please remember I am not certain about anything as some of it may just be stories handed down.
As far as I know Patrick Brophy was born in Ireland probably Dublin as I believe he spent the early part of his life there. I am guessing that he didn't come over to Liverpool until sometime in the 1900's. At some point he got married and had children, this could have been in Ireland or in England. One of his sons was called Robert and as he spoke with an Irish accent, which leads me to assume that Patricks marriage took place in Ireland where he would have raised his family. Patrick and his wife became separated, as far as I know he was a catholic so I don't know if divorce would have been possible, as the catholic church do not recognize it. Once he was over here he eventually met up with Annie or Ann Gilcrist they together had a son in 1925 called James Brophy, James was my father.
I was told by my father years ago that my great granddad, thats Patricks dad was the chief of the Dublin metropolitan police and he was also a very skilled coach painter, specializing in heraldic painting. How much of that is true I just don't know.
I am hoping to visit southern cemetery later today to try and find some clues about Patrick. I may have to make several weekend trips as I believe its a very large cemetery.
Regards
John.
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Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.
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munchies
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 651
Elias Saundie (Soundie) and Jane Heeley
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I am not sure i would rely on him having spoken with an Irish accent to prove he was born in Ireland if a lot of Irish families lived together then they would probably have children born here but picking up an irish accent from family and neighbours.
My son had a very definite scouse accent at age 6 but had only been to Liverpool twice 
Just my opinion though
Donna
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Logged
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Surname interests Soundie, Brookfield, Healey/Heeley, Frost, Handley, Goodall Weaver, Evans, Pagett, Waywell/Whaywell, Haimes, Jones, Roberts, Cummins Ryder, Bleasdale and Foley, Jackson, Robinson, Calvert and Grayson.
Searching in Liverpool, Shropshire, London, Worcester and Holywell, Stafford and Cheshire. (and eventually in Ireland) :-)
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sarah
Administrator
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 770
One of the RootsChat Caretakers
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Hi John,
There is a posting under "Lancashire" about our plans to try and transcribe Southern Cemetery.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=10277.0
The Manchester and Lancashire Family History Society also have an Irish Ancestry Branch. Here are there contact details
Mr J Conway
Irish Ancestry
c/o MLFHS
Clayton House
59 Piccadilly
Manchester
M1 2AQ
0161 236 9750
Sarah
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 19 January 05 16:36 GMT (UK) by copyright_editor2 »
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anne elizabeth
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 12
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Thank you very much for going to all that trouble, I am still unable to narrow it down but may be if I give you more information it might help.
Please remember I am not certain about anything as some of it may just be stories handed down.
As far as I know Patrick Brophy was born in Ireland probably Dublin as I believe he spent the early part of his life there. I am guessing that he didn't come over to Liverpool until sometime in the 1900's. At some point he got married and had children, this could have been in Ireland or in England. One of his sons was called Robert and as he spoke with an Irish accent, which leads me to assume that Patricks marriage took place in Ireland where he would have raised his family. Patrick and his wife became separated, as far as I know he was a catholic so I don't know if divorce would have been possible, as the catholic church do not recognize it. Once he was over here he eventually met up with Annie or Ann Gilcrist they together had a son in 1925 called James Brophy, James was my father.
I was told by my father years ago that my great granddad, thats Patricks dad was the chief of the Dublin metropolitan police and he was also a very skilled coach painter, specializing in heraldic painting. How much of that is true I just don't know.
I am hoping to visit southern cemetery later today to try and find some clues about Patrick. I may have to make several weekend trips as I believe its a very large cemetery.
Regards
John.
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Brophy, Bergin, Hogan, O'Brien, Lalor, Hughes, Clear, Peters, Bastick all of Queens County Ireland
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anne elizabeth
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 12
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Hi I hope I'm doing this right, new girl 
Widowhood is the most likely cause of a second marriage, divorce would have bee well nigh impossible.
from another Manchester Brophy probably no relation
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Brophy, Bergin, Hogan, O'Brien, Lalor, Hughes, Clear, Peters, Bastick all of Queens County Ireland
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Christopher
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 10426
St Patrick's Night at Bunratty.
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Hiya Acorn, Sarah and everyone on this thread,
I collected a copy of Jim Herlihy's book "The Dublin Metropolitan Police. A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men 1836-1925" from my local library this afternoon. There were 14 Brophys in the Dublin Metropolitan Police. Only one Patrick Brophy though. He was born in 1841 at Stradbally, Queen's County and his DMP number was 6796
All the Best, Chris
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Acorn
RootsChat Extra
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Sorry its been a while since I last visited the site, thank you for all your help and advice so far.
Ann you could well be a distant relation.
Christopher, that book sounds interesting, it might give me some leads, I will try and order a copy from the local library.
I have found some more details about Patrick Brophy, he had the middle name of Joseph. I managed to get some details from the manchester councils website. He must have been born in 1877 as he was buried in southern cemetery in 1952 age 75.
I now need to find out what I can about him hopefully if I can find him on a census or track down a birth certificate it will lead me to my great grandad, the dublin police man.
If I find anything out I will post on here, and if anyone has any other useful tips it appreciated.
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Logged
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Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.
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Acorn
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 20
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Christopher you may be able to give me a clue as to who my great grandfather was, with that book. I have worked out that my grandfather Patrick joseph brophy was born 1877, his father my great grandfather was in the Dublin police. I do not know what my great grandfather was called but I have a bit more information which I obtained from www.familysearch.org which may narrow it down to two possibilities.
According to my research there were two patrick brophy's born in Ireland in 1877. The father of one was called John and the other father was called william. I have there wives names as well if it helps. If I my findings are correct one of these men was a high ranking policeman in the Dublin police. The only other information that I can give you, is that he was a very large chap over 6 foot who required help from other officers to get him up into the police carrage, due to him being quite over weight. If he went to sort out a pub brawl he would just bang the heads together of those fighting. This could all just be legend I dont know, but may be your book may give some clue as to his identity.
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Logged
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Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.
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