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Author Topic: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor  (Read 404 times)
cheshcat
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1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« on: Wednesday 03 November 04 13:02 GMT (UK) »

Thomas Taylor appears on the 1851 census for Macclesfield at Wells ? or Chills ? Buildings with his wife Martha.  Thomas and Martha married in 1845 and I would very much like to find Thomas Taylor on the 1841 census as he would have been single then - aged 21 - and hopefully living with his parents.  Thomas's father may have been Henry Wardle.

Any help would be appreciated.

Carol
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peterbennett
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 03 November 04 13:16 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol

           Patience dear Carol I am looking  Cheesy Grin

peterbennett

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Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
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cheshcat
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 03 November 04 17:09 GMT (UK) »

Thanks Peter
Thought it may have slipped your mind as you get so many enquiries and the conversation moved on from Taylor  to Wardle.
I'll wind my neck in now !
Carol
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peterbennett
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 03 November 04 17:16 GMT (UK) »

Carol
          I have a few possibles,but have been trying to sort them by a process of elimination with other censuses, I did send a message asking if you could tell me the ancestral line that took you back to Thomas, need more clues please.

peterbennett
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Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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cheshcat
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 03 November 04 20:35 GMT (UK) »

Dear Peter
I found Alfred Taylor b. 1850 Macc on the 1881 census living at 79 Higginbotham Street Macc. as below:

1881:-
Martha Taylor Head Widow 61 b. Bakewell Derbyshire weaver
Alfred Taylor Son 31 b. Macc Weaver
Elizabeth Taylor Dau (In Law) 32 b. Macc Silk Peacer (piecer ?)
Wm. H Taylor (Grand) Son 8 b. Macc
Annie Taylor G.Dau 6 b. Macc
Alfred Taylor G.Son 1 b. Macc

Found a marriage for Alfred Taylor & Elizabeth Ann Clayton in 1871 at Parish Church, Macc. Alfred aged 21 and Elizb. aged 22.  Alfred's father's name is given as Thomas Taylor - weaver.

Alfred's birth certificate in 1850 confirms parents as Thomas Taylor & Martha Taylor - formerly Knowles.

Found a marriage for Thomas Taylor and Martha Knowles in May 1845 at St George's Macc.  Thomas & Martha were of 'full age'.  Thomas is a silk weaver and his father's name is given as Henry Wardle - silk manufacturer. 

You very kindly found Thomas and Martha on the 1851 Census in Macc  at Wells Buildings (On Alfred's birth certificate it looks like Chills Buildings if such a place exists) -

1851
Thomas Taylor  Head 30 b. Macc  weaver and undertaker
Martha Taylor  Wife 32  b. Bakewell hand loom weaver/employer. 
Mary aged 2
Alfred 1.

I am trying to find out why Thomas's father's name is given as Henry Wardle on Thomas's marriage certificate. I would also like to find out Thomas's mother's name.  As Thomas did not marry until 1845 , I thought that if he could be found on the 1841 it might answer the riddle.  In 1841 Thomas Taylor would have been 20.  He was born in Macc.  He might be still at home living with his mother ( and even with his natural father - unless his mother was widowed or never married at all - or he could even be living at the home of his step father named Henry Wardle.)

I have looked on the LDS website but can not find a birth for Thomas Taylor b. 1821 in Macc - so I am really stuck !  Huh

Hope this helps
Carol
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cheshcat
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 03 November 04 20:43 GMT (UK) »

Peter
Forgot to say on last post.

A John Taylor was witness to the marriage of Thomas Taylor and Martha Knowles in 1845 - John Taylor could perhaps be a brother of Thomas Taylor ?

Carol
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peterbennett
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 04 November 04 10:14 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol
             Thanks for the info, the reason I asked is that I have searched the 1841 and found several possibles, none of them are living with an Henry Wardle or a brother named John and as the name of his mother is not known we need to find another connection, one of the problems with the 1841 census is that a persons age is rounded of up or down depending on wether the enumeratoras an hangover or not, and of course age did not seem to be important at that time,so that any Thomas Taylor around the right age could be described as twenty. I am at the moment trying to trace all Thomas Taylors through the census's in order to eliminate the "wrong uns". It all takes time so please bare with with me I promise we will get there in the end.
The correct name for the premises on the census is Okells Buildings not wells or chells.

bye for now

peter
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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peterbennett
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 04 November 04 12:18 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol
             Just found this on the 1871, maybe one or two new names to add to your list.

1871 RG10-3676-Folio 9  79 Higgingbotham Street Macclesfield

Martha Taylor  51  widow
Mary                22
Alfred              21
Hannah           16

regards

peterbennett

* taylor_martha_1871.JPG (60.16 KB - downloaded 28 times.)
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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cheshcat
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 04 November 04 19:11 GMT (UK) »

Dear Peter
Yes -interesting ! 
No new names but it does tell me that Martha Taylor lost her husband Thomas Taylor in 1871  or before which I wasn't aware of before.  This will cut down possible year of death for Thomas as before it was any time between 1851 and 1881 - now it is between 1851 and 1871. 

Yes the rounding of ages on the 1841 is a nuisance isn't it - and it doesn't help when you don't have much to go on anyway. 

Thanks once again
Carol  Cheesy
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peterbennett
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 14 November 04 15:26 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol

            I think I have narrowed down the Thomas Taylor we are looking for, below is a scan (1841) of a family living in Bridge street Macc which is quite close to Thomas's 1851 address, I cannot be certain that this is the one,so I have requested a freebie lookup for the birth details at Chester RO, they will generally do one person searches over a few years without charge, should hear something in the next day or so.

regards

peterbennett

HO107-132-5 Page 40  Bridge Street Macclesfield


* THOMAS_TAYLOR_1841_BRIDGE_STREET.JPG (124.42 KB - downloaded 19 times.)
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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cheshcat
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 14 November 04 21:25 GMT (UK) »

Dear Peter
Thanks ever so  Cheesy
It certainly looks likely as Thomas's age fits and for the 1841 it is quite clear.
Looking at the LDS IGI I did find a Thomas Taylor son of John Taylor & Elizabeth Taylor bap 22 April 1841 at Cathedral Manchester, Lancs.  I also found a John Taylor, son of John & Elizb. bap 21 Feb 1819 at Cathedral, Manchester.  I was not sure if it was the right Thomas because he was bap in Manchester.  If it is the right Thomas, then the name of his mother on the 1841 fits and it looks like John Taylor who would have been his elder brother had maybe already left home.

Thank you for requesting a free search for me - I look forward to any results.
I am still wondering what this Henry Wardle step father connection can be ?
Could Thomas's wedding certificate be wrong ? 

best wishes
Carol
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cheshcat
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #11 on: Monday 15 November 04 16:41 GMT (UK) »

Whoops -  I mean Thomas bap Manchester 1821 (not 1841)
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peterbennett
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 17 November 04 15:41 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol

             BY GOVE I THINK WEVE CRACKED IT.

     The other day I did a search of the 1851 Macclesfield census for the family I found in 1841, and found them in the same address minus Elizabeth who I think has passed on, but with Hannah (unwed) as the head and a William Taylor (5) as grandson. On the Cheshire BMD there were three possibles for the birth of this William so I emailed the reg office and asked them to find me a certificate of the one who had a father named Thomas, and sure enough it arrived this morning (see scan) he is one of yours, I then received an email back from the Chester RO the gist of which I have copied below

Mr Bennett
We hold parish registers here which record baptism, marriage and burial.
For the period covering the 1820s we hold baptism registers for Macclesfield
St Michael and Macclesfield Christchurch.  We also hold the registers for
the ancient parish of Prestbury and I have checked these from 1820 and found
the baptism of a Thomas Bennett (in the first names column) Taylor son of Hannah Taylor on 7 April 1822.
We have an index to Cheshire marriages pre-1837 on CD-Rom and I have checked
for any marriage of a Henry Wardle.  There was one result for a Henry Wardle
marrying a Susannah Hobson at Prestbury in 1822.

I hope this information will be of some use to you.

Yours sincerely


From this I would say that the father could possibly be a Bennett ? nothing to do with my lot !
Let me know what you think

peterbennett

1851 HO107-2160-F 287 Bridge St. Macclesfield
 

* hannah_taylor.JPG (61 KB - downloaded 11 times.)
* william_taylor_birth.JPG (96.99 KB - downloaded 11 times.)
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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cheshcat
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 17 November 04 23:54 GMT (UK) »

Well Peter
This is awesome !
Yes Wm. Henry is in the same clan for sure with place of birth at Okells Bldgs.
This little boy was with his grandma in 1851 and not with his parents - so he is a big surprise.
If Thomas was really a Thomas Bennett - why did he just drop the Bennett bit in later life ?  Even his marriage cert. shows him just as a Thomas.  Strange that Hannah & Elizb. are unmarried - but I guess they are UNM as they still share the same surname.  So wierd that he says his father was Henry Wardle silk manufacturer on his wedding cert - perhaps poor old Thos had no idea who his father was anyway ? 
Just amazing really.  Thank you so much for the tremendous effort you have put in to help me solve this riddle.   Looks to me like Thomas was illegitimate and that was a pretty hard cross to bear in those days.  Kind of stops my family tree on that side in its tracks.  Although I could follow Hannah Taylor's line I guess.
Is it possible to obtain a copy of the bapt. record for Thos in 1821 ?
Thanks
Carol
Cry
(Tears for Thomas)
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peterbennett
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Re: 1841 Census Macclesfield Thos. Taylor
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 18 November 04 12:29 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol
            It is a strange affair alround and one you may never find an answer to, the Thomas born to Hannah is I would say a 90% certainty of being yours, he was given a middle name by his mother of Bennett, this could be an old family name,or it could be the father, either way it would make his wedding certificate father William Wardle a flight of fancy ?

With regards to your other questions please see my personnel message

peterbennett
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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