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Topic: Blue family, Kilmun (Read 3169 times)
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blueth
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Has anyone information about Dugald Blue, believed to be born in Kilmun, Argyllshire in May 1852. His father's name was John. I have no more ideas, and am stuck!
Blueth
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Thrall
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 87
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Hi Blueth, where did you get this info. on Dugald Blue? He does not appear on Scotlandspeople, but there are two others:
28/08/1853 Blue Dugald, parents Donald Blue and Christina McLachlan, Barony.
21/05/1854 Blue Dugald, parents Donald Blue and Mary Townsend, Dalry.
The ´61 census has no Dugald Blue age 5-10 in Kilmun, but they appear as age 6 in Greenock and 7 in Dalry.
Something does not add up. Either the father´s name is wrong, or dates and location (or all!). Wildcards did not seem to help.
There is however a Dugald Blue born 26/02/1855 in Greenock (other side of the Firth) with father John Blue, mother Jane McNeill. Could this be your man?
Good hunting,
Thrall
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Hi Blueth
Not sure if there is a connection. Have you seen these posts on Ancestry.com forum? May be worthwhile contacting them. Names seem similar.
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/an/surnames.blue/416
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Did your Dugald remain in Scotland or did he (maybe with family) emigrate? In the 1881 Census in Scotland there are only 2 Dugald Blues with an age range of 25-35. They are both showing as age 26 and born in either Daltry, Ayr or Greenock, Renfrew (these seem to tie in with the info posted by Thrall). There is only one entry for a Blue with a Dunoon (nothing Kilmun) birth place and that's a Donald in his 50s.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Thrall
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 87
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Hi Monica, I seem to remember that possibly Dunoon and Kilmun were sometime one registry district, but cannot find an instance just now.
Good hunting,
Thrall
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Thrall, you're correct, they were previously one Registry. In the 1851 Census, there are only 3 entries in Dunoon and Kilmun, a couple John and Margaret aged 22 visitors in household. Also a Sarah Blue, aged 26 in a separate household. I've been trying to find them in the 1861 Census, but wonder if the surname has been mistranscribed, they are not jumping out as yet!
In the 1861 Census, there is one more entry apart from the two highlighted by Thrall, a 7yr old Dugale (oh those transcriptions!) Blue in Glasgow. But his father is a Donald from Argyll, and this Dugald was born in Glasgow. This is the 1853 IGI entry shown by Thrall earlier.
Blueth, any more information on your Dugald that could help with searches?
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Blueth
I think the couple in Dunoon and Kilmun in 1851 are relevant. I found this IGI entry:
John Blue Birth: 23 MAR 1827 Christening: 26 MAR 1827 Ardpatrick, Kilberry, Argyll, Scotland
Parents: Father: Dugald Blue Mother: Mary Bell
Marriages: Spouse: Margaret Ferguson Marriage: 23 NOV 1850 (this marriage shows as both a submitted entry and an actual extract from the OPRs).
It would appear that post 1855, John and Margaret moved to Glasgow where they had the following children:
1. ARCHIBALD BLUE Birth: 19 APR 1856 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. DENNIS BLUE Birth: 20 NOV 1865 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
3. DENIS BLUE Birth: 26 JUL 1873 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
4. JANE BLUE Birth: 11 JUN 1871 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
5. JOHN BLUE Birth: 06 AUG 1868 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
6. CATHERINE BLUE Birth: 30 SEP 1860 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
7. MARGARET BLUE Birth: 02 NOV 1863 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
8. DANIEL BLUE Birth: 31 DEC 1861 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
9. COLIN BLUE Birth: 24 MAY 1858 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Now, these births are all post official registration in 1855. I am thinking that if we have the right couple, Dugald would have been born in Kilmun c. 1852whilst his parents were there (we have them there in 1851).
If Dugald was the first born son, he would have been called after John's father which fits Scottish naming patterns.
What is also notable, is that a sibling search for this John shows the following names for parents Dugald Blue and Mary Bell:
1. ARCHIBALD BLUE Birth: 24 AUG 1825 Kilcalmonell And Kilberry, Argyll, Scotland
2. CHRISTIAN BLUE Birth: 30 OCT 1831 Kilcalmonell And Kilberry, Argyll, Scotland
3. MARGARET BLUE Birth: 15 SEP 1823 Kilcalmonell And Kilberry, Argyll, Scotland
4. COLIN BLUE Birth: 17 MAY 1829 Kilcalmonell And Kilberry, Argyll, Scotland
As you can see, the names are very similar to those of John and Margaret's children. I've picked out above only the actual extracted births from the OPRs. There are other entries for this couple's children, including more marriage details and deaths.
The problem at the moment is finding the family, one would think in the Glasgow area in the 1861 Census. We need to do this to find your Dugald in the household. I'm thinking their surname Blue has been mistrascribed as I'm not finding them there under that name. The family seem to have lived in Glasgow for some years given that all the post 1855 births were registered there.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Thrall
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 87
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Hi Monica, you´re doing well - sorry not to have had more digging time. Do you think Blueth is following us? I´m still interested in where his info. is from!
Good hunting,
Thrall
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Me too!
I'm convinced the family is there in Glasgow in 1861 (and 1871 given the births of the children) but who knows how Blue has been indexed because nothing is coming up with lots of * in and around the spelling of Blue.
Can't move on without finding Dugald in the family and 1861 is the best bet! It would be worthwhile Blueth moving the 1861 census query to the Lanarkshire board (somebody like Liz who has access to the 1861 Census index might have a better chance of finding them under some spelling - not sure how flexible the cd is in respect of searches).
Soooooooo frustrating...and I've only been trying for a little while!
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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gblue42
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
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WOW!!
Thank you Monica for the private message and thank you to you and thrall for all of this documentation in the thread. I'm sure blueth will respond with excitement soon. This is looking very promising. I've traded several private emails with Hilary (blueth) and don't have nearly as much as you have in the short time you've been working on it except that he's supposed to have emmigrated to Ireland around age 17 or 18. I'm at work right at the moment but will have time to digest all of this when I get home. I just hope I can concentrate on my work until then. This is SO exciting!!
Gerry
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Ok, this is where it gets a bit more confusing!
The golden rule of genealogy........verify verify verify....
We have two couples, both John and Margaret nee Fersugon. The second couple married in Glasgow, from IGI:
JOHN BLUE Marriages: Spouse: MARGARET FERGUSON
Marriage: 31 AUG 1860 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
So from the original list of IGI births showing for a John Blue and Margaret Ferguson:
First couple. John shows as seaman on birth certs:
1. ARCHIBALD BLUE Birth: 19 APR 1856 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. COLIN BLUE Birth: 24 MAY 1858 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Second couple. John shows as hammerman, and some certs show the wedding date of 1860. I've viewed the first three.
1. CATHERINE BLUE Birth: 30 SEP 1860 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. DANIEL BLUE Birth: 31 DEC 1861 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
3. MARGARET BLUE Birth: 02 NOV 1863 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
4. DENNIS BLUE Birth: 20 NOV 1865 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
5. JOHN BLUE Birth: 06 AUG 1868 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
6. DENIS BLUE Birth: 26 JUL 1873 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
7. JANE BLUE Birth: 11 JUN 1871 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Archibald and Colin don't show anywhere in Scotland in 1861 under Blue (never mind Dugald). Given the profession of John father in the children's birth certs. I can understand him missing the census, but not all the family. Aside from whether Blue may have been mis-indexed, I am now wondering whether the whole family left for Ireland (not just Dugald) sooner than you may have thought. There are no deaths showing for a Margaret Blue other name Ferguson with a birth year of 1825 +/- 10yrs (which would be well within the age range of the Margaret showing as age 22 in 1851 Kilmun).
I also wondered if you had the death cert for Dugald in Ireland and whether it showed his father's occupation. Is there any history of his brothers (and any other siblings) also living in Ireland.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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My last one before I snap shut my laptop!
Is this relevant or is it just wishful thinking on my part! From IGI Ireland to parents John Blue and Margaret Ferguson:
1. ROBINA BLUE Birth: 17 APR 1869 , Limerick, Ireland
2. JESSIE BLUE Birth: 16 MAY 1867 , Cork, Ireland
3. HUGH BLUE Birth: 24 SEP 1864 0260, Shanagolden, Limerick, Ireland
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Merryb
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am so excited!! I am Gerry's sister Merry and written down by family members is that John Blue was a steam ship master (listed on Dugald's marriage registry in Limerick) and he (John) had 7 sons, no mention of daughters. They were reported to have left Scotland for all parts of the world. There was an Archibald for sure as he is listed on the marriage registry as witness. The birthdate I have for Dugald is May 24, 1852. Thanks for all of your time. Merry - California
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gblue42
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
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Also, another BLUE researcher who read this thread suggested an alternate surname search on "McGuirmin" which apparently somewhere prior to 1820 became "Blue". It's a long shot but probably worth a query.
Gerry
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