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Topic: RAZZELL - Dorking 1836 (Read 547 times)
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phh
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I've been told that a Thomas RAZZELL was the licencee of The George Inn, Dorking in 1836.
Can anyone confirm this or find him on the 1841 census?
Thank you.
Pat
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Surnames in Somerset - BENNETT, COLES, ELLY, GARLAND, GUPPY, HASE, KERTON, LANGTREE, MARSHALL, MILLARD, NICHOLLS, PUDDY, ROGERS, SAUNDERS, SPERRING, STOKES, SYMMONS, TAYLOR, WHITTING, WOODBURN
Surnames in Gloucestershire - BURCHELL, HILL, LONG, WATTS, PINNOCK, RUDDER, SHORT,
Surnames in Wiltshire - DEW, JONES,
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Newf
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There are 2 R[a/o]zzell families in 1841 Dorking.
One has a Thomas as Head, an AgLab, with a 25 year old son Thomas also an AgLab - the other family has a 25 year old Milly as notional head, with 2 children named Razzell - one is a 2 year old Thomas
Here's the reference for the AgLab family - they live in:-
Kings Head Square, Dorking ..
HO107/1081/6
Registration district of Dorking
Folio 29
Page 14
All born in County..
Thomas Rozzell (sic) 53 Ag Lab
Mary Rozzell 55
Thomas Rozzell 25 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Rozzell 20
James Rozzell 15
John Rozzell 5
There is also a variant of the name in Kingston on Thames - a Grocer ..
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« Last Edit: Sunday 17 September 06 08:50 BST (UK) by ScRoppers »
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK Carlisle |
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phh
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Thank you very much for the information and the speed of the reply.
Iwill look into both the extracts you mention.
I had found Millie (Amelia) on the 1851 census as the wife of a Richard KENT - she had 2 RAZZELL children with her, John,17 & Thomas 13
What was the name of the third child on the 1841 census?
Are there any parish registers for Dorking available online?
I'm very grateful for your help.
Thank you
Pat
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Surnames in Somerset - BENNETT, COLES, ELLY, GARLAND, GUPPY, HASE, KERTON, LANGTREE, MARSHALL, MILLARD, NICHOLLS, PUDDY, ROGERS, SAUNDERS, SPERRING, STOKES, SYMMONS, TAYLOR, WHITTING, WOODBURN
Surnames in Gloucestershire - BURCHELL, HILL, LONG, WATTS, PINNOCK, RUDDER, SHORT,
Surnames in Wiltshire - DEW, JONES,
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Newf
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Sorry - my mistake, there were only John and Thomas - ages match - I counted Millie as #3
PRs - look here:-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountySurrey.htm#D
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK Carlisle |
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damikinch
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I cannot throw any light on a Thomas RAZZELL being a licensee in Dorking in 1836,but I can add a little to the Thomas and Mary RO(A)ZZELL in the 1841 census at Dorking.
A Will drawn up on the 18th July 1838 for an ancestor of mine,namely Elvy Dean RIDLEY,makes a bequest to a "Mary RAZEL of Dorking........child(ren) of my late brother Drewry RIDLEY late of Worth,Sussex."
There was a Codicil added to the Will on Oct.22 1842 in which it stated as one of the named nieces had died,that her daughter was to receive her share.This was not Mary RAZEL thus indicating she was still alive at that date.
The Will was proved on Sept.9,1843.
I'm sorry that I cannot add anything further.
Dave.
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BONIFACE,Hoxton & Chatham. CARTER,Bucks & Middx. KINCH,Berks. RIDLEY,Surrey. STREETER,Croydon. Census information is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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phh
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Thanks Dave,
Actually that ties in very well with a christening I have just discovered - James Drury RAZELL christened in 1825 s/o Thomas & Mary.
Looking at the age Thomas RAZZELL I think the person I'm looking for may be his son Thomas born in 1816.
On the 1841 census: the order of the entries make me wonder whether the son Thomas is married to Elizabeth and John is their son. Could this Thomas have been the licencee in 1836?
Thomas Rozzell [sic] 53 Ag Lab
Mary Rozzell 55
Thomas Rozzell 25 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Rozzell 20
John Rozzell 5
James Rozzell 15
Thanks for your help.
Pat
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Surnames in Somerset - BENNETT, COLES, ELLY, GARLAND, GUPPY, HASE, KERTON, LANGTREE, MARSHALL, MILLARD, NICHOLLS, PUDDY, ROGERS, SAUNDERS, SPERRING, STOKES, SYMMONS, TAYLOR, WHITTING, WOODBURN
Surnames in Gloucestershire - BURCHELL, HILL, LONG, WATTS, PINNOCK, RUDDER, SHORT,
Surnames in Wiltshire - DEW, JONES,
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Newf
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you found the PRs OK then ?
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK Carlisle |
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Newf
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Yes, given one sees no relationships in the 1841, Thos Jnr & Elizabeth could be a couple and John their son, with James the youngest son of Thos Snr ...
However, given that Thos is an Agricultural Labourer, I'm hesitant to agree he could have been a Licencee ....
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK Carlisle |
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damikinch
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Hi Pat.
Thomas,Elizabeth,Ann and James were,according to the IGI,all born with parents by the names of Thomas and Mary,and all baptised at Dorking.
I think it is safe to assume that they are siblings.
The baptism dates are listed as,
Thomas.July 14,1816.
Elizabeth.April 23,1820.
Ann.Nov.10,1822.
James Drury.Dec.14,1825.
This is IGI information and is not yet proven.
I think it highly unlikely that Thomas(1816) would have been a licensee in 1836 as he may have been too young.
Regarding Amelia (or Milly) this may be a red herring.
In 1841 she is listed as Milly at Dorking,and in the same household are John RAZZELL and Thomas RAZZELL.On the next page is Richard KENT along with an 8 year old Richard KENT.In 1851 she was listed as Amelia KENT,and the 2 boys that were with her in the 1841 household are know known as John Razzell KENT and Thomas Razzell KENT.Of course,we do not know if this was an attempt to deceive the census enumerator,or if the enumerator assumed the children were Richard Kent's children,although it is possible they were his children but born out of wedlock.
It is curious to note that on the 1851 census there is a Thomas RAZZELL aged 34 staying with Richard and Amelia KENT and described as "brother".The Thomas RAZZELL that was the son of Thomas and Mary did not appear to have a sister named Amelia or Milly.But we cannot say for certain until either a baptism is found for Amelia or a marriage date is found for Thomas RAZZELL and Mary RIDLEY.Mary who was born about 1795 would have been old enough to have been married and had a child by 1813,which was the year Amelia was born according to the 1851 census.
Dave.
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BONIFACE,Hoxton & Chatham. CARTER,Bucks & Middx. KINCH,Berks. RIDLEY,Surrey. STREETER,Croydon. Census information is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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damikinch
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In 1841 Milly's surname was RAZZELL.
Dave.
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BONIFACE,Hoxton & Chatham. CARTER,Bucks & Middx. KINCH,Berks. RIDLEY,Surrey. STREETER,Croydon. Census information is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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phh
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Thank you Jane
That is a kind offer. The information I was given was that a Thomas RAZZELLE [sic] was born at The George Inn, Dorking, 27 Feb 1836, father's name also Thomas RAZZELLE.
I can't see a possible entry on the IGI but wonder whether you have any additional information.
Best wishes
Pat
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Surnames in Somerset - BENNETT, COLES, ELLY, GARLAND, GUPPY, HASE, KERTON, LANGTREE, MARSHALL, MILLARD, NICHOLLS, PUDDY, ROGERS, SAUNDERS, SPERRING, STOKES, SYMMONS, TAYLOR, WHITTING, WOODBURN
Surnames in Gloucestershire - BURCHELL, HILL, LONG, WATTS, PINNOCK, RUDDER, SHORT,
Surnames in Wiltshire - DEW, JONES,
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phh
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Posts: 63
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Thank you Jane,
Those dates are useful.
The information came from a hand written family history by one of the said Thomas's grandchildren.
I suspect it was written from family knowledge but there are other inaccuracies in it. One marriage date is out by several years but that may well be what he was told to cover children born before marriage!
According to the account Thomas married twice - I have traced the second of those marriages - am awaiting certificate to confirm father's name.
I have not found his first marriage which is said to have been in about 1860 - wife Mary??
I'm really grateful for the description of the George which is great because it gives its location in High Street.
Thank you very much
Pat
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Surnames in Somerset - BENNETT, COLES, ELLY, GARLAND, GUPPY, HASE, KERTON, LANGTREE, MARSHALL, MILLARD, NICHOLLS, PUDDY, ROGERS, SAUNDERS, SPERRING, STOKES, SYMMONS, TAYLOR, WHITTING, WOODBURN
Surnames in Gloucestershire - BURCHELL, HILL, LONG, WATTS, PINNOCK, RUDDER, SHORT,
Surnames in Wiltshire - DEW, JONES,
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Jane Masri
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Pat,
These burials from the Dorking Cemetery might help;
8/5/1868 - Thomas Razell s/o Thomas of Dorking, sawyer & Jane his wife. Age 4m
24/7/1894 - Jessie Razzall w/o Thomas age 34 died 78 Orchard Rd, Dorking
31/10/1862 - blank Razzell s/o Thomas of Dorking, lab. & Jane. Age 8h.
4/7/1893 - Emma Razzell w/o Thomas. age 41. Died Church St. Dorking
5/7/1865 - Harriett Razzell d/o Thomas of Dorking & Jane. Age 5
26/4/1866 - Henry Razzell, carman of Stephen St. Bermondsey age 45 Died Bermondsey.
11/1/1867 - Julia Razzell d/o Thomas & Jane. Died Dorking age 2m.
17/8/1892 - Kate Razzell d/o William & Mary. Age 14. Died Heath Hill, Dorking.
22/11/1892 - Rose Agnes Razzell d/o Thomas & Emma. Age 3w. Died 40 Church St. Dorking.
24/11/1861 - Thomas Razzell lab. Dorking. Age 45. Died Mickleham.
3/10/1898 - William Razzell, ostler age 61. Died 7 Heath Hill, Dorking.
Amelia KENT buried 31/12/1865. Age 51. W/o Richard of Dorking, lab.
Richard Kent buried 26/6/1871. Age 89, lab. Died Dorking Union House.
jane
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukResearching BRABY/BRAVERY in SURREY and SUSSEX PLEASE use the look-up requests page not a personal message. |
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