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Topic: Ms Johnson (Lady) (Read 624 times)
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deafkat
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G'Day From Australia
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 Hi there I have an ancestor who lived St. Olaves or St George Southwark Surrey..
Ann Lucy Dobson lived with her 2 maidens aunt one was Lady Johnson and possible Barnes? and they were hard on her as if her mother died early 1865 or later? I don't know as I cant find out in free bmd.UK
Ann Lucy Dobson had a brother Frederick and this Ann eloped in 1863 as she may have a son Albert Cove born in St. Olaves Surrey and daughter Annie in 1865-7
She married to Alfred Henry Cove of Bermondsey Surrey in 1868 as it registered in free BMD UK
they had 7 children all together one born in Australia and other born in UK or Canada?
[b]my main interest is this Lady Johnson or Johnston she was born in Scotland where? not knownand the other aunt I don't know and wondered if this was the sister of Ann Dobson the mother of Ann Lucy Dobson.. [/b] her father was John Dobson.. did he also died young too after the 1861 census
can anyone see the electoral roll as I am in Australia .
and deaf too...
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Bartlett, Hescroff, Stanbury, Eiffe, Healey, O'Dea, Fewings, McKinty/McKenty, Spencer, Fogarty, Foxton, for a cousin (Faggotter), Hardy, Seymour, Johnson, Johnston, Cove, Dodd, Dobson, Balson, Flynn.
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Arranroots
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat! 
The first thing to ask you is whether you have tried looking through the complete birth indexes for Ann Lucy? They are available free online here:
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
You need to choose the Complete index option, which will take you a little while to get through, as it has to be search one quarter at a time.
Have you found Ann Lucy DOBSON on the early censuses to know who her parents were? I haven't looked yet, but will try that now. Incidentally, if her aunts were both unmarried, they should have the same name or one of them should be DOBSON?
Back soon
Arranroots 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Arranroots
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Is this Ann Lucy's birth and do you have the certificate?
Birth
Ann Lucy DOBSON
Mar quarter 1850
St George Southwark
Vol 4 Page 472
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Arranroots
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For completeness, this seems to be the family in 1861
1861 census RG9/330/51/27
John DOBSON H M 49 - carman - N K
Ann W M 49 - Surrey St George
Ann dau 11 - do
Frederick son 6 - do
Joseph EDWARDS? son in law U 24 - dock labourer - do
Address: 12 Star Court, Southwark St George
Note that Ann seems to have been married before, but her son's name is not very clear. It looks as though the enumerator has written EDDARDS...?
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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deafkat
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G'Day From Australia
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Hi there good to have some one answered my message.....yes it is hers... this in 1861 census someone gave me but I really want Johnson and Barnes I wondered if her mother Ann Dobson was a barnes before married she was born in 1812 its not easy to find though...
This however her in 1861:
(Moderator comment: census details as above)
Ann mother is born in St Olaves but thedaughter is born in St Georges. John is a carman)whose place of birth is NK what is this NK?
What was the mother Mrs Ann Dobson's maiden name before she married John Dobson..
that born in St Olaves.. Uk..
One of the other thing is that could be Ann Lucy Dobson parents died in the late 1860-70-80 or just 1860's as she could have been with 2 maiden aunts for a few years before eloped etc... married to Mr Alfred Cove of Bermondsey Surrey.
so if Ann Lucy was possible an orphan as well as her brother Frederick..? with the maiden aunts around that time as my father was a boy when he heard the story so it what he heard ...we never heard of her parents and brother
but funny enough her son, who was my grandfather his name was Joseph Frederick Bartlett ..
we didnt know where the Frederick was from.. not the Hescroff side as mostly Joseph or Robert or William or John etc not Frederick..
so if you can find out what is what with the 2 maidens aunt so may be you have to find out in earlier years or ? all we know is Lady Johnson from Scotland who lived in Surrey .... and other aunty ? as we dont know but on my grandfather birth certificate is joseph Frederick mother Anne lucy Barnes frmly Cove nee Johnson father Robert William Bartlett...
while her other children as mother Ann Lucy
Dobson...
She must have known some how it may be handy one day for me eh   
but it been not easy and just getting there as my father his grandma was Ann Lucy Dobson. and she told some stories to him ...but his mind isnt crystal clear these days...
I hope to hear more soon.
from deafkat....
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« Last Edit: Sunday 17 September 06 10:19 BST (UK) by Arranroots »
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Bartlett, Hescroff, Stanbury, Eiffe, Healey, O'Dea, Fewings, McKinty/McKenty, Spencer, Fogarty, Foxton, for a cousin (Faggotter), Hardy, Seymour, Johnson, Johnston, Cove, Dodd, Dobson, Balson, Flynn.
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Arranroots
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The first thing is that NK = not known. John says that he doesn't know where he was born.
Can you tell me when Ann Lucy went to Australia, please?
Ann Lucy's name is tricky - it looks as though her mother was married several times, possibly to JOHNSON and EDWARDS before finally marrying DOBSON.
Do you have any of this family in 1871? or had Ann Lucy emigrated by then?
Did the aunts names just come from family stories, or do you have them on censuses too?
I will keep looking.
kind regards, Arranroots
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Arranroots
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Here is the family in 1851
1851 census HO107/1564/25/42
Ann EDWARDS H Wid 38 - hawker - Southwark St Savior
Joseph son 14 - lucifer match maker - do St George's
James son 14 - do - do
Ann dau 1 - do
address: 8 Queen St, Southwark St George
Next door is
John DOBSON lodger U 37 - coal porter - Hampshire
It rather looks as though Ann aged 1 coulde be John DOBSON's daughter, but I am making assumptions here! At least we now know where he was born!
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Arranroots
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I am struggling to find Ann senior with twin sons Joseph and James in 1841.
I wonder if she had one of them with Mr JOHNSON and the other is a step-son from Mr EDWARDS?
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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deafkat
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G'Day From Australia
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Wow what a interesting story you found our family can be so interesting with the skeleton in the closet thought to be hidden for ever and thats good to know ... family can be funny and nothing to be ashamed of as its seems to happen anytime today or then.. eh..
you right may be Ann Lucy mother been married so many times so its wow to know smiles ta from Kathleen...
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Bartlett, Hescroff, Stanbury, Eiffe, Healey, O'Dea, Fewings, McKinty/McKenty, Spencer, Fogarty, Foxton, for a cousin (Faggotter), Hardy, Seymour, Johnson, Johnston, Cove, Dodd, Dobson, Balson, Flynn.
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Arranroots
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Hi again Kathleen
Here is the extra info you sent by PM - it will make things easier to have it all in the same place for everyone who is helping to see...
Ann Lucy Dobson married to Alfred Henry Cove in 1868 and I know they had seven children but I found out she when she went to Canada in 1870 she had already had few children before her marriage but I havent really confirmed it but on finding the passenger list to Canada in 1870 she was 20 and had 2 children possibly went there but it show may not with Albert and Annie Cove.. so they were born in as I found in 1863 for Albert and Annie 1867? I think also for Bessie Cove 1870? I know that while in Canada they lived there for one year possibly as I found out on records
and Alfred Henry shot thru leaving the family in Canada in 1871-2-3 and Ann Lucy and the kids also she had a babe in arms who? and caught up with him.
Ann Lucy realize short time later her husband shot thru possible some one told her? after all the family arrive back to UK ...early 1872?
They had 2 more later on... Alfred Henry in 1972-3(no records of his birth in UK and his death in not Australia but was told at sea in his 20's)and Emily Rosina 1875 in 1876 came out to Australia on the Lightning and had Catherine Harriet Cove in Kapunda SA
The family told Ann Lucy and Alfred Henry and Alf jr. and Emily Rosina came to Australia 1876 to start new life and had one more child Catherine Harriet in 1877 but the marriage broke up later after the birth and Alfred went to hospital till his death in 1883
Emily Rosina Cove married in Australia then when her husband (Enos Jackway) died in 1906era in Victoria ...
she later went to New Zealand but letter came to great grandma to say she died during the earth quake in NZ but we have wondered if she faked her death and start a new life or gone back to UK from NZ ? and remarried) She left 2 girls with Ann Lucy to bring up in Australia at that time and the family never heard from her again.
Ann Lucy remarried to my greatgrandfather and had 8 children later from 1879 to 1892..
.I wish to confirmed the first children names and birth dates correctly details...We were told the older children stayed with families (Coves) but looking up its hard to be sure about it as I know that there was Albert and with Annie Inmate in Middlesex and others not sure but there is Bessie in same in 1881 census at Inmate in Middlesex...
and I know that one of the boy (s) came to Australia later in early 1900 due to TB hewent on to go to Queensland and later died there. I dont know if he marry in Queensland or not...
I found an Annie L COVES aged 19 on the census, staying with a Professor of Music. Will look for that again.
kind regards, Arranroots
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Arranroots
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Here are some possible avenues of enquiry!
Have you asked on the Emigrants to Canada Board of Rootschat for a 1871 census look-up for Ann Lucy and family? That should give you the names and birthdates of the children. You might need some idea of where they went though.
They would have missed the 1871 census in England in that case, which explains why I can't find them!
I am looking for possible EDWARDS/JOHNSON marriages - there is at least one.
Meanwhile here is Emily's birth:
Emily Rosina COVE
St Olave Vol 1d Page 255
June quarter 1875
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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deafkat
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G'Day From Australia
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well I luck evenally happen to see it online on the website and saw about the shipping " vessel called "Lake Erie" 1870
one day I struck seeing it... the shipList and it had their names Ann and Alfred
to Ontario Canada and 2 kids Albert and Annie may not been on it as passenger list shown but Dad says she had her kids with her!
also I saw on Canada website had Alfred Cove but not family ....Federal Census of 1871 (Ontario Index)
Census Hotlink for Alfred in 1871
~~~~~~~~
hope this help you to find out cheers from Kathleen...
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« Last Edit: Sunday 17 September 06 12:48 BST (UK) by Arranroots »
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Bartlett, Hescroff, Stanbury, Eiffe, Healey, O'Dea, Fewings, McKinty/McKenty, Spencer, Fogarty, Foxton, for a cousin (Faggotter), Hardy, Seymour, Johnson, Johnston, Cove, Dodd, Dobson, Balson, Flynn.
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Arranroots
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I see what you mean about the passenger list
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/LakeErie_1870.htm
Curious that they state "Albert and Ann Cove may not be on board" and don't list them as passengers!
Edit: I think there is a mistake here & the couple's names were confused when they added the comment that they might not be on board! How sure are you that their first 2 children were called Albert and Ann or is this the only source?
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Arranroots
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I haven't managed to find much else for you - got called away, I am afraid!
You say that you have found the older children in England in 1881?
There is also this birth in Australia in 1877, which means that these children didn't go to Australia with their parents, which is exactly as you have suggested.
Birth (IGI)
Catherine Harriett COVE
16 Dec 1877
Kapunda South Australia
Father - Alfred Henry COVE
Mother - Anne DOBSON
I am afraid that in order to find out what the maiden name of the older Ann was, you might need to consult documents that are not online, possibly writing to record offices or those with access to other resources.
There are early censuses available for Southwark - I am reliably informed
The Selon Index contains early 19th century census information
Up to and including 1851
For parts of the area covered by the present day London Borough of Southwark
Together with Parish Register material, pre 1837 for a slightly wider area of SE London
Click here for contact details etc.
I will try to get back to this in the next few days.
kind regards, Arranroots
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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deafkat
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G'Day From Australia
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Hi no worries and I can wait ... was you able to find any Ms ( Lady) Johnson in Surrey in the early census?
cheers and you been a great finder... thanks from Kathleen. 
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Bartlett, Hescroff, Stanbury, Eiffe, Healey, O'Dea, Fewings, McKinty/McKenty, Spencer, Fogarty, Foxton, for a cousin (Faggotter), Hardy, Seymour, Johnson, Johnston, Cove, Dodd, Dobson, Balson, Flynn.
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