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Topic: Cannot Find Green and Clements (Read 399 times)
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julia.julibob
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Posts: 34
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I have found my maternal Grandfather's, Father, brothers and Grandfather on the 1901 census. They were living in Capel Kent. I have Alfred Green (Head) married to Rose, and Sons Charles, Kellick (is actually Frederick) and William, all born in Hertford, Hertfordshire. I can find no census record for them before that, nor can I find Birth or marriage records. I know that my grandmother was from Romany stock, but there was talk that the Green's were too.
Secondly is my Maternal Grandfather's mother's side, the Clements. They too are listed on the 1901 census and living in Nettlestead, Kent. Listed are
John William Clements (Head) born Bletchley, Buckinghamshire
Martha R Clements (Wife) born Petham, Hertfordshire
Ada A Clements (Dau) born Long Sutton, Lincolnshire
Elizabeth Clements (Dau) born Brentford, London
John William Clements (son) born Norway, Norfolk
Thomas E Clements (son) born Long Sutton, Lincolnshire
As you can see, they moved around a lot, and I have seen the parish records for the 3 daughters marriages, and they ALL have the middle name Lawrence!!! Could this have been Martha's maiden name? Yet again there is no record of them before 1901 and again, no birth or marriage records.
Can anyone help, or does it seem perfectly obvious that the people I am trying to trace were all travellers???
Look forward to your replies. 
Julia
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DWYER/O'DWYER (Tiperrary, Ireland/Tonbridge, Kent) SHILLING (kent), HIDER (Sussex), TOMPSETT (Brenchley), GREEN (Paddock Wood/Capel/Hertford), AMOS (Surrey/Kent),GOLBY (Surrey??), LUCAS (Kent/Sussex), LYNE (Lewisham/Catford/Kent), PEACOCK (Sevenoaks/Edenbridge)
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casalguidi
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Hi Julia
For the CLEMENTS family, what about ......................... 
1881 census at Sutton St Mary, Lincolnshire
Martha MERRY 22 b.Brent Pelham Herts etc. etc.
RG11/3208 folio 113 page 11
I say this because there is an Ada Alice MERRY birth registered in the Holbeach registration district June quarter 1883 ref. 7a 414
Of course this is only guesswork at the moment ................... do you have full names for the three daughters (perhaps from their marriage certificates)
Casalguidi
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julia.julibob
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I will have alook at those in a minute, but what I have is:
John William Clements (age 23) married Caroline Rice (age 30 widow) on 1st August 1915.
Elizabeth Lawrence Clements (age 22) married Harry John Tindell (age 22) on 20th December 1908
Edward Wells (father unknown) aged 23 married Ada Alice Lawrence Clements (age 24) on 14th November 1908.
George Thomas Wells (aged 20) married Mary Ann Clements (aged 22) on 10th November 1900.
And to update: I missed off from the 1901 census Mary Ann Clements born Spalding, Lincolnshire.
And Thomas's middle name is Edward.
Julia
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DWYER/O'DWYER (Tiperrary, Ireland/Tonbridge, Kent) SHILLING (kent), HIDER (Sussex), TOMPSETT (Brenchley), GREEN (Paddock Wood/Capel/Hertford), AMOS (Surrey/Kent),GOLBY (Surrey??), LUCAS (Kent/Sussex), LYNE (Lewisham/Catford/Kent), PEACOCK (Sevenoaks/Edenbridge)
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julia.julibob
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Oh my goodness!!!! Thank you so much! Martha must have re-married William Clements. It has to be them on the 1881 census as their first born Mary Ann Merry (Mary Ann Clements) was the same age and also born Spalding, Lincolnshire. I am so excited!!!!!! Now I just need to find out more!
Julia
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DWYER/O'DWYER (Tiperrary, Ireland/Tonbridge, Kent) SHILLING (kent), HIDER (Sussex), TOMPSETT (Brenchley), GREEN (Paddock Wood/Capel/Hertford), AMOS (Surrey/Kent),GOLBY (Surrey??), LUCAS (Kent/Sussex), LYNE (Lewisham/Catford/Kent), PEACOCK (Sevenoaks/Edenbridge)
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Biker
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Hi Julia
For 1891 I am going to throw this into the pot for consideration as their seem to be some interesting coincidences of ages/birthplaces ... hope this is not leading you up the garden path though 
As with all workhouse records the family members are not listed together, so I'm going to list them together from what I've "put together". Of course they may not ALL be family, but I will list those I've found ...
Note the ages are sometimes hard to read, so a little guesswork on my part! 
1891 Bishop Stortford Union Workhouse
Nathan Lawrence 73? Formerly Farm Labourer b. Brent Pelham Herts
Martha Lawrence 39 (noted as Single) b. Brent Pelham Herts
Mary Lawrence 14 b. Brent Pelham Herts
Thomas Lawrence 10 b. Long Sutton Lincs
Elizabeth Lawrence 14 b. Isleworth Middx
Ada Lawrence 9? b. Long Sutton Lincs
Lucy Lawrence 1 b. Ware Herts
RG12/1098
Folio 187
Have just noticed there is a death record for Lucy Lawrence age 1 Bishop Stortford Jun Qtr 1891
Hope that helps in some way.
Regards
Biker
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casalguidi
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I reckon that's definitely them - great stuff Biker
Julia, you've obviously got a lot of sorting out to do with regards to surnames and who the actual father of each of the children is but at least that's a start
There is a baptism for a Lucy LAWRENCE in Bishops Stortford 1890 (mother Martha) which may or may not be relevant http://www.familysearch.org 
Casalguidi
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julia.julibob
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Wow, thanks to both of you! My grandfather is still alive and Mary Ann Merry (Clements) was his grandmother, but he has little memory now, so can tell me nothing 
Julia
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DWYER/O'DWYER (Tiperrary, Ireland/Tonbridge, Kent) SHILLING (kent), HIDER (Sussex), TOMPSETT (Brenchley), GREEN (Paddock Wood/Capel/Hertford), AMOS (Surrey/Kent),GOLBY (Surrey??), LUCAS (Kent/Sussex), LYNE (Lewisham/Catford/Kent), PEACOCK (Sevenoaks/Edenbridge)
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Eilleen
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relax
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Julia.
this maybe has nothing to do with you , and it will maybe just throw up more question's than answers
I bought some old picture's a couple of years ago, and have just been going through them.
on the back of this one it just say's Grampy Clements.
maybe someone will know who he is.
from Eilleen
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EXTON, from Rutland, Stamford,Boston, Lincoln.
LANES, from Coleby, to Bracebridge Lincoln.
WAKEFIELD, PROUDMAN and HATTON , BECKETT from Cheshire and Stafford.
PINDAR, MOORE, ROSE,CHAMBERS mostly from Lincolnshire.
LAING from Elgin ,Scotland.1800s onwards.<br /LOWEN, from Ireland to London.1850s onwards. HADDELSEY from Caistor, Lincolnshire. PARFITT, LE GROS MARTIN,
BISHOP, from Ireland to London 1880's
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Eilleen
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relax
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Pat,
sorry no date or anything,
but I think it is a Lincolnshire uniform,
Eilleen.
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EXTON, from Rutland, Stamford,Boston, Lincoln.
LANES, from Coleby, to Bracebridge Lincoln.
WAKEFIELD, PROUDMAN and HATTON , BECKETT from Cheshire and Stafford.
PINDAR, MOORE, ROSE,CHAMBERS mostly from Lincolnshire.
LAING from Elgin ,Scotland.1800s onwards.<br /LOWEN, from Ireland to London.1850s onwards. HADDELSEY from Caistor, Lincolnshire. PARFITT, LE GROS MARTIN,
BISHOP, from Ireland to London 1880's
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Clements.jpg