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Topic: John Hogg and Helen/Ellen Cairns (Read 366 times)
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Alanex
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 45
James-Scotland
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I'm trying to find parents for a John Hogg who married Helen/Ellen Cairns. I can't even find their marriage. I have found the death of Helen in Old Cumnock for 1893, but can't seem to find anything else.
John & Helen had at least 4 children from what I can see....
James Hogg b. Abt 1848 in Catrine, Ayr - married Sarah Meginess.
David Hogg b. 22 Mar 1856 in Auchinleck, Ayr.
Helen Hogg b. Abt 1853 (IGI Search has mothers name as "Cains"?)
William Hogg (signed mothers death record)
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
TIA,
Alan
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Scotland: Bell, Bond, Doig, Hogg, Houston, Howson, James, Melville, Murdoch, Paton, Pennycook, Smillie/Smellie, Strain, White
England: James
Wales: James
Ireland: Hogg, Murdoch
USA: Melville, White
Australia: Houston, Howson
Canada: Houston, Pennycook
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JustJean
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 381
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Alan
If you take a peek at the 1861 census on Scotlands People website then you'll have many answers to your questions. A search for wee David HOGG age 2-7 brought up only one result in all of Ayrshire. The head of the family is found on the page before though (I hate it when they do that!) In all there are John and Helen and 9 children....the first 5 children and parents all being born Ireland. Well correction! Make that only 8 children as the last wee one....Agnes 11 mos seems to belong to older daughter Mary according to the IGI even though enumerated as one of John and Helen's. Knowing that it appears that David might be the youngest one of the family.... which means you won't get to see a date and place of the parents marriage from his BC. However....the death of John Hogg isn't hard to pin down! Look in Old Cumnock 1864. His parents names are given on his DC.
Best wishes
Jean
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aghadowey
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 6647
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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There are lots and lots of Hoggs in County Londonderry around Garvagh & Moneydig & Aghadowey. Have some old records, family trees, etc. If you have information on the ones born in Ireland, I could lookl through my notes just in case they were from this area.
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Alanex
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 45
James-Scotland
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Hiya,
Thanks to both of you.
Pretty much what I put in the above message is all I have, I didn't even know they were from Ireland!
I'll see if I can get some more info and post it back here.
Thanks again,
Alan.
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Scotland: Bell, Bond, Doig, Hogg, Houston, Howson, James, Melville, Murdoch, Paton, Pennycook, Smillie/Smellie, Strain, White
England: James
Wales: James
Ireland: Hogg, Murdoch
USA: Melville, White
Australia: Houston, Howson
Canada: Houston, Pennycook
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Alanex
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 45
James-Scotland
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Ok, here's all I've managed to collect.
John Hogg, b. Abt 1813, Ireland. Fireman
Helen Cairns, b. Abt 1811, Ireland. Domestic Servant
Children:
Mary b. Abt 1839 Ireland
William b. Abt 1841 Ireland
Agnes b. Abt 1843 Ireland
Henry b. Abt 1845 Ireland
Elizabeth b. Abt 1847 Ireland
As there next son James was born Ayrshire, Scotland, presumably they left Ireland between 1847 and 1848.
I've found a small mistake with Helens name on an IGI record, where it states she was Helen Cains.
Finally, on the 1861 Census, they appear to have 2 children named Agnes. 1 at 18yrs and the other at 11mth. A mistake? Perhaps a relative they brought up as their own daughter? I'm guessing it's not a common thing? Any ideas?
TIA,
Alan.
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Scotland: Bell, Bond, Doig, Hogg, Houston, Howson, James, Melville, Murdoch, Paton, Pennycook, Smillie/Smellie, Strain, White
England: James
Wales: James
Ireland: Hogg, Murdoch
USA: Melville, White
Australia: Houston, Howson
Canada: Houston, Pennycook
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JustJean
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 381
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Alan
My theory as I stated in my earlier post was that 11 mos wee Agnes belongs to eldest daughter Mary. You'll find her birth (Agnes) on the IGI and there is no father stated. I haven't seen her BC from Scotlands People but it would be worth a look. It would prove out if the birth address matched the address of the family at the census time.
Best wishes
Jean
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Alanex
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 45
James-Scotland
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Hi
Sorry, my brain didn't seem to take that bit in before, but I've just read it again and processed it properly!
I found the DC of John as you had said before (I did take that bit in!), but it had his wifes name as Agnes Cairns and not Helen Cairns. A mistake? A middle name?
cheers,
Alan
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Scotland: Bell, Bond, Doig, Hogg, Houston, Howson, James, Melville, Murdoch, Paton, Pennycook, Smillie/Smellie, Strain, White
England: James
Wales: James
Ireland: Hogg, Murdoch
USA: Melville, White
Australia: Houston, Howson
Canada: Houston, Pennycook
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JustJean
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 381
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Alan
I wouldn't dare truly speculate!! .....but.... It is interesting to note that his mother's name is given as Helen on his DC. Perhaps Henry was confused? Unless you were able to prove the parent names from Irish research then I guess you're stuck with not being certain. Lousy answer I know!!!
Best wishes
Jean
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gill
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 165
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Hi Alan,
as Aghadowey mentioned, there are lots of Hoggs from Co. Londonderry. Could you let us know who Johns' parents are listed as on his death certificate. I have Hogg from Derry, and a fair wee bit of information on them.
Regards Gill
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Anderson in Ireland - Renfrewshire
Skene / Skean/ Skeen in Midlothian
Dow in Stirling, midlothian, Renfrewshire
McIlmoil / McIlmoyle in Antrim, Renfrewshire
McGaffigan / McGavigan, McNulty, Murphy Kennedy Hogg and Gamble in Londonderry
Paterson / Patterson, Eaglesham / Eaglesome in Ayrshire
MacPherson , MacLeod, Gillies in Sleat, Invernesshire
Cornfoot, Hogg, Grubb, Ramsay, Auchterlonie in Fife
Neilson, OHara, Baillie in Paisley
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Alanex
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 45
James-Scotland
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Hi,
Well, if it's his DC, then his parents were William Hogg and Agnes (or possibly Helen) Robertson.
Everything on his DC seems to tie up except his wifes first name, so as JustJean suggested (and I completely agree), I think the wife and mothers name might be reversed. I'm sure I've seen a BC for a child to a William Hogg and Agnes Robertson, but can't seem to find it again.
thanks,
Alan
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Scotland: Bell, Bond, Doig, Hogg, Houston, Howson, James, Melville, Murdoch, Paton, Pennycook, Smillie/Smellie, Strain, White
England: James
Wales: James
Ireland: Hogg, Murdoch
USA: Melville, White
Australia: Houston, Howson
Canada: Houston, Pennycook
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aghadowey
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 6647
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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At the moment I can only find one William Hogg that is the right age to be John's father. Unfortunately I don't have the name of his wife.
William Hogg, father of Rankin Hogg born c1810 farmer living at Gortin Mayoughill townland in Aghadowey 1850. Rankin Hogg is still living at Gortin Mayoughill in 1859 (Griffith's Valuation) so it looks like a) his father William was already dead or b) father was living somewhere else. In 1831 Census there is no Hogg (head of household) at Gortin Mayoughill.
Not enough information to find family of your John Hogg in Scotland but will keep an eye out for you here.
P.S. Ellen more often found in Ulster while name is written as Helen in Scotland. Also, Agnes and Nancy are interchangable here but Nancy is also used for Ann/Anne.
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