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Topic: John Taylor born 1884 - an Adventurer (Read 640 times)
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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This is good stuff to have, thanks Anna. I am supposed to be working but this is much more fun  . How exciting it must have been for Minnie going out to join her new husband. She was quite a tall lady - much taller than some of her present day relations ie. Me!!
Its a pity John Taylor is proving ellusive - I wonder what he was getting up to? He was certainly alive in the late 1940s as I have just found some photos and one or two, by some miracle, are dated. One is inscribed 'at Marblehead, Mass. Aug 1947'. There are earlier, undated photos as well. I understand my Grandmother found him, by using an agency, during one of her trips to see her sister Minnie.
I know that in his younger days he travelled all over the States, and was a railway engine driver. At one point - I think - he was copper mining in Veracruz, Mexico. According to my notes, an uncle, now dead, told me that in 1917 or thereabouts he joined the Canadians and was sent to France to fight in the War.
Regards,
Maggie
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 18 October 06 15:15 BST (UK) by maggie10 »
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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johnnyboy
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 526
Census information Crown Copyright
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Hi Maggie: I see that the mere mention of "census" set the fingers of our fellow RootsChatters to dancing to find the Whittakers in Lawrence, Mass.
I found the two ships named Leviathan and would discount both of them. The troop-carrying ship was not sunk, as you've already noted. And the other Leviathan fought with Nelson at Trafalgar, which should eliminate that one. Unless--John didn't tell his nephews that he had been with Nelson, did he? You know these tellers of tales. Once they start...
I searched the Social Security Death Index, which is the closest thing we have to a national death index here, but couldn't find anyone. Neither George Whittaker, nor Minnie with either of her first names, nor the supposedly unmarried Frances. There are plenty of John Taylors, born circa 1883-1885, listed, but nothing that distinguishes one from the other. Since you mentioned the photo from Marblehead, Mass dated 1947, I specifically searched for a death in Massachusetts of a John Taylor born 1883-1885. There were five listings, all of them having had their Social Security numbers issued in Massachusetts. That means they were residing in Massachusetts circa 1935-37, when the Social Security system was being established. One might be your John, but you'd have to do more research, and getting Social Security records is expensive. A copy of a person's application costs US$27.
I also searched for Richard Morrison in current Lawrence, Mass telephone listings. Nothing came up.
Must stop. But with three questions. Do you know the exact date of John's birth? How about his death? And, finally, do you know if he became a U.S. citizen?
Regard, and I hope I haven't kept you from your work,
John
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England, YKS: SLATER of Ovenden and Halifax; DRURY of Darton, Mapplewell, Sheffield and Halifax; DOBSON of Thornton (near Bradford); NEVILL(E) of Wigan, Lancs and Darton; MEGSON of Dewsbury; GARSIDE of Woolley and West Bretton.
Scotland: HENDRY of Who-knows-where-shire and Massachusetts, USA; HOUSTON of Lesmahagow and Glasgow and Massachusetts, USA; DEMPSTER of Lesmahagow; MEIKLE of Ayrshire, Hamilton, and Glasgow; COCHRAN of Hamilton.
Paradise: EVE and ADAM, also in exile
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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Hi John,
Perhaps Great Uncle John was a weaver of fantasies 
Thanks so much for getting back to me, also thanks to everyone who is contributing. I think we can discount the elusive John as being present at Trafalgar  . If there is any truth in the 'sinking' story, then perhaps the elderly relative who told me this got the wrong ship. Will we ever know?
Now to the equally elusive Whittakers. These people definitely existed and lived in the States - I am looking at their photographs as I write! So why aren't Minnie, George and Frances on the Social Security Death Index? I am clueless regarding US research so can it happen that folk are missed off?
I am 99% certain the Whittakers lived and died in Lawrence - I am looking at a photo of their house there. However I feel John and his wife could have lived elsewhere in the U.S. and simply came over for a visit to see my Grandmother during her visit to her sister Minnie
Regarding your 3 questions - in 1891 John was aged 7 yrs and in 1901 he was 17 yrs so he was born about 1884 but I don't have a more accurate date. I have no idea when he died other than it was after 1947, in that year he would have been 63. I don't know whether he became a U.S. citizen.
Don't worry about the work - it will keep!
Regards,
Maggie
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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I have just found an entry I think is for Frances Whittaker on the Social Security Death Index:-
Frances Whitaker born 6th Oct 1908 S.S. No. issued in Massachusetts, death date 10/00/1982 (does this mean October 1982?), residence Massachusetts.
Maggie
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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johnnyboy
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 526
Census information Crown Copyright
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Hi Maggie: I also found Frances Whittaker in the SSDI, but only after seeing your last reply. I wonder why I missed her the first time.
Tomorrow or Friday I may have access to the U.S. censuses and will look for the Whittakers in Lawrence in later censuses. There also city directories online at Ancestry.com that I can check.
Here are links to Yahoo Maps, showing the address in Lawrence that have been mentioned in earlier messages.
1. http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=12+Boxford%2Cst.&csz=lawrence%2C+ma&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=
This first link shows 12 Boxford St., which is in a section of the city called South Lawrence. This is the address mentioned as the Whittaker residence when Edith Whittaker was born in 1910. My Scottish great-grandparents lived on Farnham St., two blocks north of Boxford. My English great-grandparents lived on South Union Street, near Franham St.
South Union is the north-south street that intersects both Boxford and Farnham. If your Whittakers were churchgoers, they may have attended St. Augustine Episcopal Church (Anglican), which is situated in the little triangle to the southwest of Boxford, at the intersection of South Union St., Exeter St., and Winthrop Ave. My English grandparents were nominal members of St. Augustine's. I say "nominal" because their family Bible was a Gideon's Bible that may have been on permanent loan from some hotel room! But they were very good-hearted people. Unfortunately, only one aunt is left of my family from Lawrence, though lots of cousins live in Lowell, Mass., ten miles or so to the west of Lawrence
2. http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=2+west%2C+st.&csz=lawrence%2C+ma&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=
The second link shows West Street and 12 Bradford St., which are near to the center of Lawrence, north of the Merrimack River. These streets, which intersect one another, are the streets mentioned in the passenger manifest and the 1910 census. If the family lived on Bradford St., they must have there moved just after the census, which was taken at the end of April 1910, I think.
The obvious question is might my people have known your people... If Frances made a career of teaching in Lawrence, she may have crossed paths with my mother or one of her four sisters, proving once again that the world is small.
Regards,
John
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England, YKS: SLATER of Ovenden and Halifax; DRURY of Darton, Mapplewell, Sheffield and Halifax; DOBSON of Thornton (near Bradford); NEVILL(E) of Wigan, Lancs and Darton; MEGSON of Dewsbury; GARSIDE of Woolley and West Bretton.
Scotland: HENDRY of Who-knows-where-shire and Massachusetts, USA; HOUSTON of Lesmahagow and Glasgow and Massachusetts, USA; DEMPSTER of Lesmahagow; MEIKLE of Ayrshire, Hamilton, and Glasgow; COCHRAN of Hamilton.
Paradise: EVE and ADAM, also in exile
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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Hi John,
You have been very busy on my account - thanks so much. The maps are interesting - good to know where they lived in their early days in the U.S. I am trying to dredge my memory as once of a day I knew where they were living in the 1950s - I remember my grandmother celebrated her 80th birthday in the U.S. staying with her sister in Lawrence; this would have been in 1959 and I knew the full address then, but now I cannot remember  .
It is fascinating to speculate as to whether our people knew each other. Frances, the unmarried daughter, was most definitely a teacher and I would imagine a very accomplished one. I remember her quite well - she once gave me a silver dollar!
You are quite right - it is indeed a small world.
Regards,
Maggie
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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Hi again all helpers!!
To revert to the hunt for John Taylor - because of some great detective work by Themonsster and Old Rowley, through separate posts, I now have a copy of the Attestation Papers of John the Adventurer .
In 1918 he joined the Canadian Over-Seas Expeditionary Force - definitely him, correct address of his next of kin - his father (another John Taylor) back in Accrington. I think he was sent to France. He gives his occupation on the papers as Locomotive Fireman, which gives a bit of credence to the family story of him driving the first train into San Francisco after the 1906 earthquake. Also of interest on the papers is he gives his present address as Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A., which hopefully might narrow the search for him in the census.
This is exciting, I wonder where it will lead to 
Regards,
Maggie
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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johnnyboy
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 526
Census information Crown Copyright
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Maggie: Great news that you got a lead on John the Adventurer. Had I seen you latest post earlier today (when I was at the library on Ancestry.com) rather than a few moments ago, I might have had a look for him in the U.S. census. But as it is I found some information that shows that a taste for adventure, at least in the way of sea travel, runs in the Taylor blood.
I tracked down at least seven transatlantic voyages involving one or another or all of the Whittakers, beginning with George Whittaker's trip to Boston in April 1899 (where he says his destination is Canada) and continuing until at least 1938, when Minnie and Frances returned from a visit to England. Minnie, Frances, and Edith also were in England when World War One commenced. They returned to the U.S. in September 1914. My impression of the Whittakers is that they didn't so much travel as ping-pong west to east, then east to west, back and forth, across the ocean, then forth and back, the ocean across.
I also found the Whittakers on the 1930 census, and after much difficulty, I found George Whittaker on the 1920 census, living at 12 Boxford Street (where he'd been before), but possessed of a wife named Mary, a son named James, and a daughter named Alice. I'm sure it was a mistranscription (of the highest order), but I found no sign of Minnie, Edith, or Frances. On one of the passenger manifests, Minnie's first name is typed "Armenia."
I also checked the Lawrence city directories and found that George Whittaker and Minnie, I assume, were alive in 1958, the date of the last directory I had access to.
I have copies. Send me a PM with an e-mail address and I'll get them to you.
I must stop because I'm exhausted from my labors.
Regards,
John
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England, YKS: SLATER of Ovenden and Halifax; DRURY of Darton, Mapplewell, Sheffield and Halifax; DOBSON of Thornton (near Bradford); NEVILL(E) of Wigan, Lancs and Darton; MEGSON of Dewsbury; GARSIDE of Woolley and West Bretton.
Scotland: HENDRY of Who-knows-where-shire and Massachusetts, USA; HOUSTON of Lesmahagow and Glasgow and Massachusetts, USA; DEMPSTER of Lesmahagow; MEIKLE of Ayrshire, Hamilton, and Glasgow; COCHRAN of Hamilton.
Paradise: EVE and ADAM, also in exile
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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What wonderful stuff John, and I can back up their travels to and fro with personal memories - not so much of Minnie and George as I was too young to remember, but Frances came a lot and I remember her well. There was also a lot of movement in the other direction - my grandmother, Edith Alice Rosthorn, never missed an excuse to take a trip to Lawrence. This is why it is so irritating that I cannot remember their last address there. Grandma was widowed in 1934, when she was 55, and she became very independant and thought nothing of travelling to the U.S.A. on her own, to see her sister.
I cannot thank you enough for finding out all this and will send a PM with email address.
Regards,
Maggie
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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johnnyboy
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 526
Census information Crown Copyright
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Hi Maggie: Got your PM and will sort the material out over the weekend and send it off.
It seems that Frances was a teacher at an elementary school (ages 6 through 14) in Lawrence called the Alexander Bruce School. The school is still operating.
One thing you've never posted is John Taylor's date of birth. Do you have that? I might have some more info, but it has to be narrowed down. DOB would help.
Oh yeah, does Wachusetts Avenue in Lawrence sound familiar? I think that's the last address I've found for the Whittakers.
Cheers,
John
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England, YKS: SLATER of Ovenden and Halifax; DRURY of Darton, Mapplewell, Sheffield and Halifax; DOBSON of Thornton (near Bradford); NEVILL(E) of Wigan, Lancs and Darton; MEGSON of Dewsbury; GARSIDE of Woolley and West Bretton.
Scotland: HENDRY of Who-knows-where-shire and Massachusetts, USA; HOUSTON of Lesmahagow and Glasgow and Massachusetts, USA; DEMPSTER of Lesmahagow; MEIKLE of Ayrshire, Hamilton, and Glasgow; COCHRAN of Hamilton.
Paradise: EVE and ADAM, also in exile
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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Hi John,
What a blast from the past!! As soon as I read Wachusetts Avenue it all fell into place and yes, that is where they lived. I am right now looking at a photo of their house.
I now have John Taylors DOB courtesy of his Attestation Paper - October 26th 1884.
Kind regards,
Maggie
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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maggie10
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 541
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Information provided by Rootchatters, particularly Johnnyboy, who has helped enormously, has given me access to census records, ships manifests and trade directories, so I have a clearer picure now of John Taylor's life. Help through a different post on John the Adventurer's military career resulted in a copy of his Attestation Paper and all this has allowed me to confirm that many of the family stories were based on fact.
John the Adventurer left Accrington, Lancashire, England on the S.S. Umbria in 1904, aged 20 and destined for his uncle's home in Albuquerque. In 1910 he was in Winslow, Arizona, occupation Locomotive Fireman and as both these places are on the railroad, this supports family information that he worked for the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad - so possibly he did indeed drive the first train into San Francisco after the earthquake of 1906 - or at least he may have been on it!
He has not surfaced as yet on the 1920 census, perhaps this is when he was metal prospecting in Mexico or South America, or perhaps he was still in Europe after his WW1 service with the Canadian Overseas Expeditionary Force. In 1930 he was living in New York City, with his wife Mary (Molly) and 2 step-children and his occupation was Engineer. I think he probably remained in New York as I understand that in 1945 he was working or had worked for Sperry Gyroscope making bombsights, and John tells me that the main plant for Sperry was Brooklyn (then Great Neck, Long Island).
The story of the sinking and subsequent rescuing remains unproven for now, although he certainly borrowed money from his Accrington family, which he gave to his shipmates, who were stranded in Liverpool after the sinking in order that they could get back to their homes in America (or Canada). However I think our family story has the wrong ship as the Leviathan was never sunk off the coast of India.
It would be great to find out where he was in 1920.
Thanks for all the RootsChat help.
Regards,
Maggie
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 22 November 06 00:04 GMT (UK) by maggie10 »
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ROSTHORN - Blackburn, Accrington 18/19C; TAYLOR - Accrington, Goodshaw, Edgworth 18/19C; HARGREAVES - Midgley, Southowram, Halifax; KIDD - Knaresborough, York; SIMONETT - Sheffield, Bradford, poss. French Huguenot; NICHOLSON and JARDINE - Tinwald, Dumfriesshire, ENTWISTLE - Edgworth; LOWE - Edgeworth; GILL - Accrington, Liverpool, Blackburn all 18/19C. ~~~~~~ Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk & www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk |
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