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Author Topic: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll  (Read 2664 times)
ormus
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irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« on: Thursday 26 October 06 00:55 BST (UK) »
Does anyone have access to these? I am really desperate! Also I would love to know the dates these cover.

Many Thanks,

Geoff
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JAP
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 26 October 06 02:51 BST (UK) »
Geoff,

A search on RootsChat for Lamberton Toll gets several hits - they might contain information of use to you.

Regards,

JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT.  Any spellings and many other names!
Helen K
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 October 06 12:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Geoff

I can access Lamberton Toll marriages 1833 - 1849.

I can also access Berwick Advertiser Irregular Marriages 1808 - 1864.

Who are you looking for?

Regards

Helen K
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ormus
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 October 06 20:51 BST (UK) »
Helen you are a gem! These are they:
James Charters to Elizabeth Brown ca 1831.
Robert Stothers (various spellings) to Elizabeth Brown ca. 1843
James Brown to Mary (?) ca. 1825

If you have access to the Berwick data then these too would be helpful:
John Brown to Elizabeth McPherson 8/14/1828
Margaret Brown to Hugh Chrisp 12/27/1818
Isabella Brown to John McNab 11/19/1830

Thanks very much,

Geoff
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Helen K
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #4 on: Friday 27 October 06 12:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Geoff

Sorry, there are none of these marriages recorded in the records I have access to.

Regards

Helen K
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excel
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #5 on: Friday 27 October 06 13:44 BST (UK) »
Helen,
Sorry to butt into this topic but I am sure the irregular marriages will be of interest to several people.
Can I please ask you to look up the irr., marriage of a Michael Clyne and Rebecca [Higgins, Docherty, Cleghorn]? I have included all the surnames I have found her under in different certificates. I have their children born c1852 and 1857. Apart from the R.C. church, Berwick entries the only other information I can find for them is in the 1881 census when Michael was in Hatters Lane, Berwick and Rebecca was with her daughter in Eyemouth. I will be so grateful for any information you can find although I don't hold out much hope!
Thanks in anticiption,
Rae
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Cline: Ireland and Berwick on Twieed
Collin: Eyemouth
Clyne: Ireland, Berwickshire, Northumberland
Barns, Barnes: Fife
Walker: Edinburgh & Stirling
Laing, Wilson, Forrest, Forrester, Colven, Rae, Cowe, Buglass, Johnson, Wilson, Thorburn, Darling, Broomfield, : Berwickshire
McRaw, Cameron, Taylor, Gould/Guild, McIntyre, Maxton, McDonald, Douglass : Perthshire
Cormack, Campbell, Sutherland, Doull: Caithness
Garethboxing
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Grampy Wyndham Jones (Wales v Ireland 1905)
Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #6 on: Friday 27 October 06 13:51 BST (UK) »
I also apologise for butting in Smiley - but what are "irregular marriages"?  Is it a Scottish thing?

    Gareth
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Scott, Dowdeswell (Merthyr Tydfil), Jones (Loughor and Merthyr Vale), Roberts (Nelson), Prichard (Collenna and Cefn Fforest); Evan Roberts (Corwen and Amlwch); Scott (Pentre); Scott (Ancrum); Thomas (Pantywaun and Bedlinog); Morgan Jones (Ystradfellte); Bowen (Loughor); Jenkins (Bridgend); Thomas Dowdeswell (b. Gloucester, 1829).

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
ormus
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #7 on: Friday 27 October 06 20:48 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much for trying, Helen. It was a forlorne hope I suppose but I am at a dead end. For the newer posters, an irregular marriage was performed in Scotland in much the same way Gretna Green became famous for; rules were not quite as strictly enforced as in England, and it was cheaper as banns were not required. Working class folks near the border found it a paticularly useful procedure. Lamberton Toll and Coldstream were popular sites in the East.
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runner
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #8 on: Friday 27 October 06 21:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Gareth

Yes 'irregular' marriages are a Scottish thing.
Historically when Scotland became a Protestant nation for various reasons the Church of Scotland was the Established church and anyone marrying outside this was considered to have embarked on an 'irregular' marriage.

That is only part of the story though.

Marriage in Scotland is considered a contract and those who declared their intention to marry before witnesses could be considered married without any religious ceremony or blessing of the clergy.
A couple who lived together as man and wife and behaved in all ways as a married couple could also be considered as married without any ceremony or formal agreement.
Naturally the established church did not like it when folks set up house without their approval but the law of the land not only permitted it but also would uphold their rights in a court of law.

There's a fascinating book about it called 'Promises, Promises' written by Leah Leneman. Published by NMS enterprises in 2003.
ISBN No 1-901663-52-3.
The book covers litigation 1698-1830 but it was only recently that all Scots laws on marriage were brought into line with England & Wales.
Its a fascinating read!
There are other factors like the age of consent and residency which play a part too but it starts to get too complicated.

Russell
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Oman in Caithness, Reside in Renfrewshire,
Roan or Rowan Kirkcudbrightshire/Ayrshire
Watsons in Kilrenny and Mortons in Edinburgh.
aspin
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #9 on: Friday 27 October 06 21:04 BST (UK) »
Quote from: Helen K on Thursday 26 October 06 12:52 BST (UK)
Hi Geoff

I can access Lamberton Toll marriages 1833 - 1849.

I can also access Berwick Advertiser Irregular Marriages 1808 - 1864.

Who are you looking for?

Regards
Helen K
could you help me
I am looking for the marriage of James Thompson to Martha Lounton
James born Scotland 1834 Martha born Tweedmouth 1833
there eldest child George was born 1850?Huh? picked this up but not sure he is theirs
I have the birth certificate of Martha their eldest daughter 1855

Elizabeth

Helen K
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McKenzie,Helmsdale.,Mackay's,Gordon's,Polsons,Sutherland's,Loth Watson ,Munro,Pitsligo.Black. Harle ,South Shields.Black,and Short East Hollywell.Northumberland Gair, Amble,Douglas,Amble,Mitchell ,Fettercairns,Lyall, Brechin .Mearns ,Scotland.Thompson's ,Spittal.family of Maghie,Young .Raey Cumberland and Newcastle & Glasgow .Gilroy, Northumberland.and Starks Berwick.Skeen's Tweedmouth.Gregsons Northumberland & America. Andrew farmer Turnbull Berwick & Pode' and Black  of Hull.Lounton Tweedmouth
Garethboxing
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Grampy Wyndham Jones (Wales v Ireland 1905)
Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #10 on: Friday 27 October 06 21:25 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that edification, folks. So once again Scotland lead the way. If only Wales had its own legal system, but that's another story .... Smiley
   Gareth
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Scott, Dowdeswell (Merthyr Tydfil), Jones (Loughor and Merthyr Vale), Roberts (Nelson), Prichard (Collenna and Cefn Fforest); Evan Roberts (Corwen and Amlwch); Scott (Pentre); Scott (Ancrum); Thomas (Pantywaun and Bedlinog); Morgan Jones (Ystradfellte); Bowen (Loughor); Jenkins (Bridgend); Thomas Dowdeswell (b. Gloucester, 1829).

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Helen K
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #11 on: Friday 27 October 06 23:50 BST (UK) »
excel and aspin

I'll take a look for your couples tomorrow (Saturday).

Regards

Helen K
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Helen K
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 28 October 06 12:40 BST (UK) »
excel

Hi Rae

Sorry, there are no CLYNE/CLINE entries in the records I have access to.  I've also checked all of the surnames you gave for Rebecca, but there were no grooms called Michael.



aspin

Hi Elizabeth

Sorry, there are no LOUNTON (or variations of) entries in the records I have access to.  I've also checked the James THOMPSON entries, but there were no brides called Martha.

Martha and (possibly) James were in Scremerston, Northumberland in 1851.  Have you tried the Marriage Register of St Peter Scremerston ?

Regards

Helen K
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aspin
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 28 October 06 14:31 BST (UK) »
Helen

I have written to Berwick Register office for the marriage of Martha Lounton and James Thompson of Scremerston but they could not find them so I thought they may have been married over the border
How do I get in touch with St Peters Scremerston

Elizabeth
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McKenzie,Helmsdale.,Mackay's,Gordon's,Polsons,Sutherland's,Loth Watson ,Munro,Pitsligo.Black. Harle ,South Shields.Black,and Short East Hollywell.Northumberland Gair, Amble,Douglas,Amble,Mitchell ,Fettercairns,Lyall, Brechin .Mearns ,Scotland.Thompson's ,Spittal.family of Maghie,Young .Raey Cumberland and Newcastle & Glasgow .Gilroy, Northumberland.and Starks Berwick.Skeen's Tweedmouth.Gregsons Northumberland & America. Andrew farmer Turnbull Berwick & Pode' and Black  of Hull.Lounton Tweedmouth
excel
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Re: irregular marriages at Lamberton toll
« Reply #14 on: Monday 30 October 06 11:25 GMT (UK) »
Helen,
Thank you very much for taking the time to do that look up for me. This couple is very elusive!
Rae
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Cline: Ireland and Berwick on Twieed
Collin: Eyemouth
Clyne: Ireland, Berwickshire, Northumberland
Barns, Barnes: Fife
Walker: Edinburgh & Stirling
Laing, Wilson, Forrest, Forrester, Colven, Rae, Cowe, Buglass, Johnson, Wilson, Thorburn, Darling, Broomfield, : Berwickshire
McRaw, Cameron, Taylor, Gould/Guild, McIntyre, Maxton, McDonald, Douglass : Perthshire
Cormack, Campbell, Sutherland, Doull: Caithness
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