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Topic: Samuel Clulo - where did he go? (Read 1566 times)
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Valda
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Posts: 6635
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I had seen the other Samuel but could not find him on the 1851 census (perhaps he also, if born by then, is in another surname - I don't presume he was born legitimately - maybe maybe not - the 1861 census is not conclusive). I had thought the marriage to Louisa was more likely to be him and not Samuel Bryan/Clulo. If this Samuel was also born illegitimately his marriage certificate would prove nothing!
The first step is knowing whether Ann and Elizabeth Bryan on their marriages state their father was called John and he was an engine fitter. If that is the case it tends to prove the hypothesis (I think you can prove hypothesises you can't prove theories) that the 1851 census entry is correct.
Once that is proved it is up to you whether you chance the birth certificate. However, even if it was your Samuel the certificate probably wouldn't show the name of the father. The 1851 census entry would be enough evidence to show that whoever was the father, Samuel was born illegitimately before his mother's marriage.
Legally you can be known by any surname you want, but since Samuel was born before the marriage he would always have been illegitimate. It wasn't until the C20th that a subsequent marriage legitimised children born before their parents weddings (laws are never retrospective).
There seems no evidence so far, that if Samuel survived in whatever surname he choose to use in adulthood, that he had any close contact or even contact at all with the Clulo family.
Regards
Valda
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Valda, thanks for message.
On Ann Bryan and Samuel Clulo's marriage cert.July 31st 1851, Ann was living in Clement St and her father is John Bryan,Engine Fitter. This all fits!
I am awaiting marriage cert. for Elizabeth and Charles Hyett.
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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Valda
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Posts: 6635
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The marriage information confirms the 1851 census (census night 31st March) and Samuel's birth as a Bryan, but his isn't necessarily the birth registered in September quarter 1850 - that might be a little old for him. As he was 4mths old (if correct) on census night you would expect a December quarter registration for his birth not September.
Regards
Valda
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Now have marr.cert. for Charles Hyett age 54[!] and Elizabeth Bryan age 40 [!] 20th March 1871 at the Register Office by certificate.His address was 66 Hill St and hers was 159, Lawley St. Aston.Her father was John Bryan engine fitter.
Ann and Elizabeth were sisters. Charles and Elizabeth both seem to have adjusted their ages.Charles at his death in Dec.1872 ref.B'ham 6d85 was 63 and on all censuses his birth was in 1810.Elizabeth was 37 in 1871 census. and 43 at her death in 1877.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 07 June 07 10:22 BST (UK) by kooky »
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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Valda
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Posts: 6635
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It doesn't answer you original question about Samuel but it does confirm who the Bryans were and the 1851 and 1861 census entries including Samuel's.
Regards
Valda
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I sent for the birth cert. for Jane Bryan gr daughter age 7 in 1871 census.
Her mother was Betsy Bryan, no father. She was born in the workhouse, Dudley Rd.Birmingham.
I am not sure how she was grand daughter. Also cant find her anywhere later.
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I also sent for death cert for Charles Hyett. He died age 63, still at 66, Hill St. 4th Dec. 1872.
He died of 'Alcohlismus Hepatic Disease'
The informant was not his wife. It was Mary Bate, present at the death and also living at 66, Hill Street. I cant find Mary in 1871 living in Hill St. Maybe she was a nurse living in.
I have sent for a will for Charles Hyett. I am still hoping to shed some light on Samuel Clulo.
See previous entries in this post! 
There was no will for Charles Hyett 
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« Last Edit: Thursday 02 August 07 13:51 BST (UK) by kooky »
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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celia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4314
You cant hide forever
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Kooky
would William Clulo a Beer Retailer in the "1850 directory"of Birmingham Heath be of any relation to your clulo's?
Celia
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh yes! 
He was married to Maria Bennett and had 8 children including my gt gr father James in 1849.
His brother Samuel was the father of my missing Samuel.
I am aware of the entry.
Thanks anyway. How come you found him?
Kooky
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« Last Edit: Friday 07 September 07 15:12 BST (UK) by kooky »
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have just been looking at a current thread about non registration of births before 1875. [27th Nov.]
I did have a go at finding SAMUEL CLULO'S baptism without success. Maybe I should try again? Can anyone suggest a way forward? I have checked the IGI, used batch no. searches of parishes in Birmingham.
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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In view of all the new members of Rootschat, I would love to resurrect this thread.
Has anyone any ideas about how I could find either Samuel's birth or what happened to him after the 1861 census?
Kooky
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« Last Edit: Saturday 19 January 08 09:56 GMT (UK) by kooky »
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Logged
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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celia
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4314
You cant hide forever
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Hi Kooky
see you are still looking  I have been through the posts again and i cant see any mention of
Samuel Clewlow reg 1854 Newcastle U/Lyme? Staffs.
might he be related?
Celia
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for looking. No I don't think he is related. I've no record of anyone in Newcastle under Lyme.
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 760
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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FOUND HIM!
In a website posted today - C19th British Library Newspapers, Birmingham Quarter Sessions, Birmingham Daily Post, Thursday July 8th 1869 issue 3422
News " Thieving and receiving. Samuel Hyatt alias Clulo (19) gas fitter, etc. etc. charged with stealing a table cover.................sentenced to 4 months" !
Well well, I have had a quick look in 1871 census with no luck.
Can anyone else find him?
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire,Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher - Hull, Manchester.1840 - 1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1800 - 1861
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celia
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4314
You cant hide forever
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Kooky
Great news Kooky i am so pleased for you,when you spend a long time looking for someone,instead of giving up. It makes you more determined to find them  I started looking for my grandads brother 4 years ago i only found him last year on a website i didn't know was available to me so i had never used it.I still don't know anything about him except the mention of his death in the article.
Celia
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