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Topic: Samuel Clulo - where did he go? (Read 1866 times)
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Have Samuel Clulo b 1851 in 1861 census with parents Samuel b1828 and Ann nee Bryan b 1828 at Eyre St,Ladywood Birmingham.Father Samuel died 1861, Ann married Charles Hyett b 1810 in 1862 - no children.Ann died 1871.Charles married Elizabeth Bryan also 1871 and died 1872.Again no children.
What happened to young Samuel? I cannot find him in any other census,[Clulo, Hyett and Bryan]the IGI, or any birth,marriage or death index or passenger lists.Birmingham reg. have no record of his birth.When Elizabeth Hyett nee Bryan died in 1877 the informant was her son Thomas[also in 1861 census with Samuel]There is no father on Thomas' birth cert. in 1857.
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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davidpinkney
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1668
Margaret Richardson (nee Robinson)
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Just going to post census details etc to clarify this is the info you have.
Samuel Clulo married Ann Bryan sep qtr 1851 Birmingham
1861
Samuel Clulo - head - 33 - Birmingham (died dec qtr 1861 Birmingham)
Ann Clulo - wife - 33 - Birmingham (remarried Charles Hyett dec qtr 1862 Birmingham)(died mar qtr 1871 Birmingham) - Charles married Elizabeth Bryan mar qtr 1871)
Samuel Clulo - son - 10 - Birmingham
Thomas Bryan - nephew - 3 - Birmingham
1871
Charles Hyatt - head - 61 - Cheltenham (died dec qtr 1872 Birmingham)
Elizabeth Hyatt - wife - 37 - Birmingham
Thomas Bryan - grdson - 13 - Birmingham
Jane Bryan - grddau - 7 - Birmingham
Elizabeth Bryan - wifes mother - 80 - Darlaston
sorry only got questions at the moment:
there is Samuel Bryan born sep qtr 1850 in Birmingham, on 1861 census though think it is the one with mother Elizabeth aged 55 and then married Louisa Jones in Aston, both living Duddeston in 1871 with two children? Presume you have seen this one and can't be yours?
Why is Thomas enumerated as grandson in 1871? Isn't he Elizabeth's son?
Have you Ann/Elizabeth as sisters on any census to prove the relationship.
Not for me to judge but isn't it strange that Charles's wife died and he remarried in the same qtr of 1871?
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSwansea (Glamorgan) - Reynish/Johnson Yorkshire/Durham - Pinkney/Richardson/Robinson/Gill Wiltshire - Hibberd London/Surrey - Clark Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire - Spencer, Broughton, Sprigg, Martin Cornwall - Sowden Herefordshire/Shropshire/Wales - Worrall Essex - Saville Dorset - Atkins, Govier Devon - Wakely, Parsons |
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Some answers! I have Thomas Bryan's b.cert. - mother Elizabeth, no father.Have Elizabeth Hyett's d.cert. 1877,widow of Charles Hyett,still at 66,Hill St. informant Thomas Bryan son.
Do not have Ann and Elizabeth in a census together.Have just sent for m.cert. for Elizabeth and Charles.
In 1861 census Thomas Bryan is described as nephew[wrongly transcribed as Beyan] with Samuel,Ann and Samuel.
Have mother & dau. Elizabeth in 1841 census also Thomas b.1827 who was witness at Ann Clulo's marriage to Charles Hyett.
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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davidpinkney
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1668
Margaret Richardson (nee Robinson)
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So from this then the enumerator has put grdson but should be stepson?
Have you considered this death?
Samuel Clulo death reg dec 1861 Birmingham vol:6d pg:2
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSwansea (Glamorgan) - Reynish/Johnson Yorkshire/Durham - Pinkney/Richardson/Robinson/Gill Wiltshire - Hibberd London/Surrey - Clark Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire - Spencer, Broughton, Sprigg, Martin Cornwall - Sowden Herefordshire/Shropshire/Wales - Worrall Essex - Saville Dorset - Atkins, Govier Devon - Wakely, Parsons |
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes enumerator's mistake.
Yes have death cert. for Samuel Clulo aged 33 Dec.1861 - Samuel's father!
Thanks for suggestions so far!
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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davidpinkney
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1668
Margaret Richardson (nee Robinson)
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Have you just looked on freebmd for Samuel jnrs death or have you looked through the images qtr by qtr?
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSwansea (Glamorgan) - Reynish/Johnson Yorkshire/Durham - Pinkney/Richardson/Robinson/Gill Wiltshire - Hibberd London/Surrey - Clark Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire - Spencer, Broughton, Sprigg, Martin Cornwall - Sowden Herefordshire/Shropshire/Wales - Worrall Essex - Saville Dorset - Atkins, Govier Devon - Wakely, Parsons |
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have noted every Clulo BMD from 1837 up to date!
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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davidpinkney
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1668
Margaret Richardson (nee Robinson)
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well looks like you've been thorough then!  Sorry i don't know where else to suggest to go with this one.
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSwansea (Glamorgan) - Reynish/Johnson Yorkshire/Durham - Pinkney/Richardson/Robinson/Gill Wiltshire - Hibberd London/Surrey - Clark Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire - Spencer, Broughton, Sprigg, Martin Cornwall - Sowden Herefordshire/Shropshire/Wales - Worrall Essex - Saville Dorset - Atkins, Govier Devon - Wakely, Parsons |
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for help!
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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Valda
RootsChat Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
 Online
Posts: 7121
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Have you checked the more common spellings of the surname such as Clulow and Clelow or even Cluio (the spelling of the surname on his father's marriage)?
Have you found Samuel's birth registration? How was his surname spelt on that? Given that you have only found him on one census was his name registered as 'something' and then Samuel or just Samuel? If you put in Samuel Clulo in FreeBMD it will only search for Samuel as a first name not a second.
Regards
Valda
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Valda,
thanks for message.I do not have any record of Samuel's birth[see original post]
In my research I have come across 20[NOW 22] spellings of CLULO and I have used them all in my pursuit of Samuel.I also put Samuel in the 1871 census search in Ancestry, with no surname b. Birmingham about 1850 and looked at hundreds of names!
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« Last Edit: Thursday 07 June 07 10:19 BST (UK) by kooky »
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Logged
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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Valda
RootsChat Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 7121
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Is that because Samuel's birth was registered in the surname Bryan and not Clulo?
Births Sep 1850
Bryan Samuel Birmingham 16 313
1851 census HO107 2051 folio 500
Clement Street Birmingham Warwickshire
John Bryant 58 Birmingham Head Married Engine Fitter
Betsy Bryant 57 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Wife Married Domestic Duties
Betsy Bryant 16 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Daughter No occupation
Ann Bryant 23 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Daughter Unmarried
Samuel Bryant 4mths Birmingham Grandson
two households away
Thomas Bryan 34 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Head Married Engine fitter
Mary Bryan 26 Birmingham Wife Married Domestic Duties
1861 census RG9 2177 folio 62
1 Court Gorton? Green Street Aston Warwickshire
John Bryan 68 Birmingham, Warwickshire, Head Married Engine Fitter
Betsy Bryan 67 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Wife Married
Thomas Bryan 34 Darlaston, Staffordshire, Son Widower Engine Fitter
Emma Bryan 6 Birmingham, Warwickshire, Granddaughter
Regards
Valda
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Valda, interesting thought! If your theory is correct why is he Clulo in 1861 census?
Also Ann Bryan/Clulo/Hyett was born in Birmingham not Darlaston Staffs.
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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Valda
RootsChat Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 7121
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Birmingham is Ann's birthplace on one census - the 1861 census (have you found her on any others?). It doesn't make it necessarily her correct birthplace, since the census is only as good as the information given by the informer. Betsy/Elizabeth Bryan the elder gives Darlaston as her birthplace on the 1871 census. Her daughter Elizabeth born Birmingham seems a perfect fit age wise for Betsy junior born Darlaston on the 1851 census. What father's name and occupation do the sisters Elizabeth and Ann give on their marriages?
You don't tell census enumerators your business if you don't feel it necessary to do so, so there is nothing to stop you giving the information Samuel was a legitimate Clulo (which might indeed be the surname he was known by at the time - after all there is no reason to believe he wasn't Samuel's son - though it appears Ann might have had a brother also called Samuel, so the boy might not have been named for Samuel Clulo) as opposed to some longer explanation about wife's illegitimate child.
ANN BRYAN
Christening: 20 JUL 1828 Saint Lawrence, Darlaston Near Wolverhampton, Stafford
Father: JOHN BRYAN Mother: ELIZABETH
Regards
Valda
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kooky
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 989
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Valda, more thought provoking info.!
I suppose my next move is Samuel Bryan's birth cert.
I have an Ann Bryan in the 1841 census with the LINE family aged 15,b.Warwickshire in Pritchett St. Birmingham.
Also have marriage ref. for Samuel Bryan and Louisa Augusta Jones Dec.qu. 1868 Aston.This of course may not have father on it if he was illegitimate!
I was wanting to find Samuel Clulo originally because most of my research is about the Clulo family, and I thought I may find descendants.
Have Samuel Bryan in 1861 census in Thorpe St age 10 with Elizabeth Bryan age 55 and Emma age 20.Samuel is described as son. I do not think that Samuel could be in 2 different families and locations simultaneously!
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 28 November 06 15:21 GMT (UK) by kooky »
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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