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Topic: Frustrated Sutherland Seeks Sutherlands (Read 11114 times)
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hi Ostler,
Sorry I didn't spot this post earlier. I am also related to the Sutherland family that you are searching for 
My gggg grandmother Elizabeth Sutherland was Janet Sutherland's sister. Do you descend from Janet? She has another sister and a brother as far as I know, Jane Sutherland who married Thomas Rutherford and John Sutherland who remained unmarried.
I have her death record from SP as follows:
Janet Sutherland cottager widow of Angus Sutherland (crofter and woolen weaver) died 17 Jan 1900 Achnacraig Berriedale Female aged 87yrs Father: John Sutherland Crofter (dec), Mo: Catherine Sutherland (MS Gunn) (dec) debility from age gradual, no regular medical attendant. Informant - John Sutherland (neighbour - present)
And her parents (John Sutherland and Catherine Gunn) census returns if you would like them.
The 1861 census in Badbea is indeed them, and this is them in 1871 and 1881:
1871 census - Badbea, Berriedale, Caithness
Angus Sutherland Head M 67yrs Woolen weaver b. Dunbeath, Caithness
Janet Sutherland Wife M 56yrs b. Badbea, Caithness
Jessie Sutherland Dau U 18yrs Domestic Servant b. Badbea, Caithness
 Sutherland Serv U 14yrs Domestic Servant b. Dunbeath, Caithness
1881census- Badbea, Latheron, Caithness
Angus Sutherland Head M 76yrs Crofter (formerly wool weaver) b. Dunbeath, Latheron
1881 census for Janet - Strathkinness, St Andrews, Fife, Scotland
Charles ANDERSON Head M 27 M Farmer's son Strathkinness, Fife, Scotland
Janet ANDERSON Wife M 28 F Badbea, Caithness, Scotland
Janet ANDERSON Dau 7 F Scholar Strathkinness, Fife, Scotland
Christina Wilson ANDERSON Dau 5 F Strathkinness, Fife, Scotland
Elspeth Louden ANDERSON Dau 3 F Strathkinness, Fife, Scotland
Charles ANDERSON Son 9 m M Strathkinness, Fife, Scotland
Janet SUTHERLAND M Visitor 68 F Farmer's wife Badbea, Caithness, Scotland
Angus us by himself and Janet is with her daughter Janet Anderson in Fife.
This is the widowed Janet in 1891:
1891 census - Achnacraig, Berriedale, Caithness
Janet Sutherland Head W 78yrs Annuitant b. Latheron, Caithness Gaelic and English Speaking
Hope this helps and I would love to hear from you soon 
Jenny
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 346
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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My gggg grandmother Elizabeth Sutherland was Janet Sutherland's sister. Do you descend from Janet?
Thanks for all that, there does seem to be a link there anyway! When you say "Do you descend from Janet", which Janet do you mean? My tree has a ridiculous amount of Janet Sutherlands!
I'm excited now, so I hope to hear from you soon! 
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Sorry I meant Janet Sutherland daughter of John Sutherland and Catherine Gunn, ie wife of Angus Sutherland.
I would love to hear how you descend from this couple as I descend from her sister Elizabeth Sutherland, who had an illigitimate son James Rutherford.
I can give you details of Elizabeth, her brother John, sister Jane and parents if you like. Just PM me your e-mail address and I'll send what I can. I am also in contact with a descendant from Jane Sutherland and Thomas Rutherford and I can let her know about you too
Hope that helps
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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HJO
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
From these messges it looks likes Jen has found another branch of our Sutherland tree
I am from the line of Jane Sutherland c 1798 daughter of John Sutherland and Catherine Gunn, Jane married Thomas Rutherford.
atherine Gunns parents are John Gunn & Janet Sutherland ( just to confuse things even further another Sutherland - they must all have been inter-married one way or another but I guess in a small area like it is to be expected). But I think the Rutherford boys who came up with the sheep stirred things up a bit as there seem to be a couple of bairns born out of wedlock!!
Happy to share any info on this family.
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 346
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Happy to share any info on this family. Yes please!
PM me if you'd like to do it privately or via email.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hey Helen/Bryce,
Glad to see you guys have hooked up too. I am busily checking out the gedcoms you both e-mailed over and will catch up with you both soon 
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 346
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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*bump*
Wondering if anyone can help me with some more Sutherlands.
Neil/Niel Sutherland m. Janet Bain, 17 Dec 1802 in Latheron. If anyone has any info on these two people, I'd be most grateful. I've looked up death certificates and it seems both of them had died before 1855 (seems unlikely somehow, but not impossible. I wonder if they emigrated?). They had one son, Angus, b.1803, and I'm sure they had more. In 1841 census there are a couple of Neil/Neil Sutherlands, but it doesn't really tie in. There's no Janet Bain either...
I'm nearly conceding to the fact that this is as far back with my family I can get, but if anyone has any advice for stuff to look at or anything else I can do before giving up, please let me know.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hey Bryce,
There will be no giving up!! I am in the middle of a holiday, but will have a look around when I get back in a couple of weeks. I am guessing that they were deceased by 1855, but could be wrong, and they may have been deceased by the 1841 census too, people didn't necessarily live that long back then.
If you get a chance to visit New Register House, it might be a trawl through the death records for 'Sutherland' in and around Latheron on the cards to see if you get any other children of theirs, that is what I did for John Sutherland and Catherine Gunn, very time consuming but very rewarding as I found you and Helen
Incidently is this the 1841 census you have for Angus and his first wife Janet Gow?
Place: Latheron -Caithness
Civil Parish: Latheron
Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Berriedale
Address: Knockally
SUTHERLAND Angus M 35 Wool Hand Loom Weaver Caithness
SUTHERLAND Jannet F 25 Caithness
SUTHERLAND Eliza F 30 Caithness
DOUGLAS John M 7 Caithness
If so, then Eliza Sutherland may be a sister or relative? John Douglas may also be a rellie, a nephew or something?
Good luck, and let me know how it all goes.
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 346
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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I don't know how to tell for definite if that's who it is, but it's not impossible. 
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 346
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Oh, did I ever send you that picture? 
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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No you didn't 
E-mail it to me
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 346
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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I'm on it.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hey Bryce,
Was at New Register House today looking up some stuff and while I was looking up a marriage I happened to see on the same page a marriage for a Esther Sutherland (daughter of Neil Sutherland and Janet Bain).....weird hey!!
So it looks like this is a long lost (well only to us) sister to your Angus Sutherland
I copied all the details down for you:
13 July 1877 at Bruan, Latheron marriage between
James Sutherland (crofter & cooper journeyman) widower Fa: Benjamin Sutherland crofter & fisherman dec Mo: Catherine Sutherland (MS Cormack dec) 70yrs Res: Smerly Swiney, Latheron
Esther Sutherland (agricultural labourer - widow) Fa: Neil Sutherland crofter & fisherman dec Mo: Janet Sutherland (MS Bain dec) 50yrs Res: Smerly Swiney, Latheron
Witnesses: John Bain, Margaret Forbes
So this makes her born approx 1827 which would make her a younger sister to Angus by quite a number of years, so my guess is that there are many more siblings!! I checked for her death and got the following:
Death: Esther Sutherland crofter widow 1st William Bain crofter 2nd James Sutherland crofter died 10 Mar 1900 at ??Hill, Smerlie, Lybster aged 75yrs Fa: Neil Sutherland crofter dec, Mo: Janet Sutherland MS Bain dec Heart Disease & Pneumonia. Informant Alexander Bain son & inmate present.
and her census details:
1841 census - Knockallie, Latheron, Caithness
Niel Sutherland 60yrs Fisherman born in county
Jannet Sutherland 35yrs born in county
Jannet Sutherland 20yrs born in county
Esther Sutherland 15yrs born in county
Isabella Sutherland 10yrs born in county
Robert Sutherland 8yrs born in county
George Sutherland 6yrs born in county
Alexander Sutherland 4yrs born in county
William Sutherland 1yr born in county
1851 census - Barthargio, Latheron, Caithness
Willm Bain Head M 45yrs Farmer of 4 acres b. Latheron, Caithness
Esther Bain Wife M 26yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Janet Bain Sister 50yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
1861 census - Lomgove, Latheron, Caithness
William Bain Head M 58yrs Farmer b. Latheron, Caithness
Esther Bain Wife M 36yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Donald Bain Son 8yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Margaret Bain Dau 5yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Alexander Bain Son 3yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Janet Bain Sister 63yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
1871 census - Badharigo, Swiney Estate, Lybster, Latheron
William Bain Head M 66yrs Crofter b. Swiney, Caithness
Esther Bain Wife M 46yrs crofter's wife b. Dunbeath, Caithness
Margaret Bain Dau U 15yrs Scholar b. Swiney, Caithness
Alexander Bain Son U 13yrs Scholar b. Swiney, Caithness
1891 census - Swiney Estate, Lybster, Latheron
Esther Sutherland Head W 62yrs Crofter b. Latheron, Caithness (gaelic & english speaking)
Alexander Bain Son U 32yrs Gen Labourer b. Latheron, Caithness
seeing that the 1841 census seems to be you Neil Sutherland (though I cannot actually look at the image and no relationships are mentioned, so have put them in descending age order only) I thought I would look at the other census for this family.
1851 census - Balnabruick, Latheron, Caithness
Neil Sutherland Head 76yrs Crofter of 3 acres b. Latheron, Caithness
Janet Sutherland Wife 50yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Janet Sutherland Dau 30yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Alexr Sutherland Son 11yrs Scholar b. Latheron, Caithness
William Sutherland Son 9yrs Scholar b. Latheron, Caithness
1861 census - Balnabruich, Latheron, Caithness
Neil Sutherland Head 80yrs Crofter b. Latheron, Caithness
Janet Sutherland Wife 60yrs Crofter's wife b. Latheron, Caithness
Janet Sutherland Dau 40yrs Household & Agricultural Labourer b. Latheron, Caithness
Isabella Sutherland Dau 30yrs Household & Agricultural Labourer b. Latheron, Caithness
William Sutherland Son 19yrs Fisherman b. Latheron, Caithness
Donald Bruce GSon 2yrs b. Latheron, Caithness
Now I realise that Janet (the wife) is too young to have had Angus, so I suspect the old man got married twice, so now all you have to do is check Scotland's People or the New Register House for Neil's death and it 'should' say who his parents were and who he was married to!!!
The IGI shows 2 marriages but they are submitted, so you'll need to check the official certs
Neil Sutherland and Janet Bain 17 Dec 1802 Latheron, Caithness
Neil Sutherland and Janet Campbell 29 Dec 1825 Latheron, Caithness
Are you feeling lucky??
Let me know how it goes, I am eager to know now, good luck
Jenny
P.S E-mailed this to you as well but it came back delayed, so thought I'd put it here as well
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Couldn't put it down, typical of me
So I checked the IGI for the children of Neil Sutherland
This is what I got: Now bear in mind that they are all submitted entries NOT from OPR's so they all need to be checked on Scotland's People or New Register House. Also the first group I assume to be the children of Neil Sutherland and Janet Bain but only Neil's name is down as father as was the custom back then. I also realise that they married in 1802 so the first couple of kids could be someone else's entirely or more likely born out of wedlock.
George Sutherland chr 27 Jan 1801 Latheron ? died young
James Sutherland chr 3 Nov 1802 Latheron ? died young
Angus Sutherland chr 8 Oct 1803 Latheron
William Sutherland chr 8 Aug 1805 Latheron ? died young
Margaret Sutherland chr 2 Dec 1807 Latheron ?died young
Adam Sutherland c. 1808 (from grave below)
Margaret Sutherland chr 6 July 1810 Latheron
James Sutherland chr 4 Feb 1812 Latheron
Donald Sutherland chr 12 Sep 1813 Latheron ?died young
Hugh Sutherland chr 2 Aug 1814 Latheron ? died young
Ann Sutherland chr 1815 Latheron
Donald Sutherland chr 19 Sep 1816 Latheron
Mary Sutherland chr 25 Feb 1817 Latheron
Janet Sutherland chr 7 Jan 1819 Latheron
Alexander Sutherland chr 4 Apr 1822 Latheron ? died young
William Sutherland chr 22 Aug 1822 Latheron ?another man? Not sure this one fits in as the baptism is very close
Esther Sutherland chr 31 July 1824 Latheron
These I assume to be the children of Neil and his second wife Janet Campbell
Isabol Sutherland chr 7 July 1828 Latheron
Robert Sutherland chr 23 Feb 1830 Latheron Neil Sutherland Janet Campbell
George Sutherland b 12 Sep 1832 chr 24 Sep 1832 Latheron Neil & Janet Campbell
Hugh Sutherland b 13 Mar 1836 chr 24 Mar 1836 Latheron Neil & Janet Campbell ?died young?
Alexander Sutherland b 27 Jan 1838 chr 6 Feb 1838 Latheron Neil & Janet Campbell
William Sutherland b 2 Sep 1840 chr 6 Sep 1840 Latheron Neil & Janet Campbell
Red ones are the ones in the 1841 census with their father and of course your Angus
Also found a grave in Latheron old cemetery:
Grave 214
Sacred to the memory of.
Adam Sutherland, boat carpenter, died at Dunbeath 12th July 1845 aged 37.
Erected by his affectionate father Neil Sutherland.
Also.
Amelia Sutherland died 29th December 1876 aged 53.
Husband Donald Sutherland, shoemaker of Knockally, died 5th May 1883 aged 68.
Blue ones are the one's I think are mentioned in this grave (but very tentative as there was no entry for Adam Sutherland at all)
I think the ones that have siblings named after them may have died young and I have put this next to their names, also for the youngest Hugh as he is not present in the 1841 census.
So now you have stacks of names to check in the records, you might even be able to get deaths for all the siblings (well the ones that lived past 1855 anyway!)
Good luck and let me know how you go
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Now Bryce, I also checked the IGI for Neil/Niel Sutherland births around 1780 because although 17 children to one couple is not unheard of I thought I'd better check if he was the only Neil Sutherland around at the time.
There are two (so some children may be to one or the other, so unfortunately it means you'll have to check deaths to be certain who belongs to who)
Neil Sutherland chr 1st or 6th Feb 1778 Latheron Father: John Sutherland
Niel Sutherland chr 26 May 1782 Latheron Father: William Sutherland
Both are submitted entries NOT OPR's so we'll have to wait and see what Neil's death certificate says hey
Jenny
P.S You've got me hooked now.....What better to do in dreich weather
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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