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Topic: Frustrated Sutherland Seeks Sutherlands (Read 11216 times)
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hey Bryce, well that is a few Sutherlands!!!!
At first glance it looks to me like two different families, or even three, as although there are not too many duplicate names there are too many Margaret's 
You have:
Margaret born c 1780 (d. 1863) Parents William Sutherland, Ann Sutherland
Margaret born c 1781 (d. 1855) Parents William Sutherland, Ann Sutherland
Margaret born c 1786 - no death recorded (you have 2 dated 1786 so I am assuming they are the same person)
If it was the one couple why would they name two living daughter's Margaret? If it is two families why would there be a third Margaret...as it appears that Margaret 1 & 2 lived to adulthood?? I am assuming that none of these Margaret's have parish baptisms to check?? As they may give more clues, i.e Margaret daughter of William of............. It may even give occupations, though I assume they would all be crofters, or farmers?
So these are the children attributed to William and Ann Sutherland of 'Mulbuie'
Esther (1783) - mother's mother ----- not sure where she fits yet 
Donald (b1784) - father's father
Margaret (b1786) - father's mother
Kathrine (b1788)
Jean (b1789)
Helen (b1792)
Ann (b1794)
Elizabeth (b1796)
William (b1798) - mother's father
Amelia (b1803)
So that leaves us:
Adam (b1770) - father's father
Robert (b1777) - mother's father
Margaret (b1781) - father's mother
Neil (b 1782)
Esther (b 1783) ----- I am adding her here as you think she may be your family due to the name - mother's mother
That would make your family:
Adam Sutherland and wife Margaret = son William Sutherland
Robert Sutherland and wife Esther = daughter Ann Sutherland
Does this fit any baptisms? Or do we have possible marriages for William Sutherland's and Ann Sutherland's to see if there are two or even three??
I'll see if I can dig anything up
Jen
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Does this fit any baptisms? Or do we have possible marriages for William Sutherland's and Ann Sutherland's to see if there are two or even three?? Of course not, that would be far too easy! Nothing on IGI anyway. I'm going back to NRH on Thursday with any luck...
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Yeah I couldn't see anything on the IGI either, but the coverage is relatively sparse. I think the key will be to find marriages for William Sutherland and Ann Sutherland......if they exist
Did both the deaths for Margaret Sutherland (d.1855 & d. 1863) give William Sutherland and Ann Sutherland (nee Sutherland) as the parents?
Good luck!
Let me know how you go
Jen
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Did both the deaths for Margaret Sutherland (d.1855 & d. 1863) give William Sutherland and Ann Sutherland (nee Sutherland) as the parents? Yes, they did. 
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Looking more like two seperate families from William Sutherland and Ann Sutherland's then.....
Fancy that two couples with the same name and same last name marrying at about the same time in the same area......gotta be a Sutherland 
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Oh shush, Clark.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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 You don't want to get me started on my Clark's
Good luck mate!
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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Back from New Register House again. More questions than answers as usual.
Does this fit any baptisms? No.
Or do we have possible marriages for William Sutherland's and Ann Sutherland's to see if there are two or even three?? No.
Found more descendants of William and Ann Sutherland! Plus some other stuff.
Can't find Neil Sutherland baptised 1782 at NRH. Closest was Neil Sutherland baptised 6 Feb 1778, son of John Sutherland of Balnabruich.
Closest marriage was William Sutherland married Ann Sutherland 2nd Jan 1778 at Canisbay.
Can't find Esther at NRH.
Possible baptism of Adam (born c1770):
Willm Sutherland in Achcastle had a child baptised named Adam. Witnesses Willm Sutherland Grieve at Langwell and Jas. Miller there. (9/4/1774)
Robert (born c1777)
William Sutherland in Cairn of Berriedale had a child baptised named Robert (7/4/1777).
William Sutherland in Bad Bhae had a child baptised named Robert. (18/8/1777).
Margaret (born c1786)
William Sutherland in Lower Millary had a child baptised named Margaret. (5/2/1777)
William Sutherland in Bouleden had a child baptised named Margaret. (8/1779)
Possibly a child of Neil's... entry was unfinished, or they hadn't chosen a name!
Niel Sutherland Achastle, Berriedale, had a child named ... (13 May 1812)
Two more descendants of William and Ann:
Jane Sutherland (pauper), married to John Sutherland, died 19th July 1875 at Knockally age 83, daughter of William Sutherland and Ann Sutherland (MS Sutherland). General debility from old age, gradual. Informant Adam Sutherland, son. So possibly Jane/Jean b c1789.
William Sutherland, crofter and fisherman, married to Janet Sutherland died 8th March 1871 at Houstry, Dunbeath age 73 years. Son of William Sutherland and Ann Sutherland (MS Sutherland). Cancer of  , some years. Informant Donald Sutherland, son (present). Possibly William b c1798.
Ergh.
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Not more surely!!!
Well another William and Jane hey, correct me if I am wrong but William Sutherland (d 1871) aged 73yrs would put his birth as 1798 ...... so he is already listed as a child of William & Ann Sutherland of Mulbuie...right?
As for Jane she died 1875 aged 83yrs so born abt 1792...... there is already a Helen Sutherland b 1792 so unless she is a twin (which she could be) she is perhaps from your family? Or she could be Jean b 1789 as you mentioned, as they are often a few years off aren't they
Typical that both of them married Sutherlands too
The baptisms you found put William's living in various locations:
1774 - Achcastle (part of Berriedale?) Adam
1777 - Cairn of Berriedale Robert and Bad Bhae Robert and Lower Millary Margaret
1779 - Bouleden Margaret
Just purely by the three baptisms in 1777, I would be leaning towards three seperate William Sutherland's having kids at the same time, it doesn't help us with who they all were married to, but I think we can hazard a guess that two at least were married to different Ann Sutherland's!!
Do we know where these places are? I mean even if they moved around a bit, how likely is it that no two children were baptised at the same place??
Man these guys are certainly a challenge!
Jen
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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ostler
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 347
Great Granddad John Angus Sutherland (1875-1963)
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This "new" William and Jane, both descendants of William and Ann, are on my list of Mulbuie Sutherlands, but who's to say that they're correct? The fact that Jane died at Knockally suggests she's from my lot.
I've never heard of any of these places, but I think it's safe to say Bad Bhae is Badbea. 
Do you have access to the censuses? It might be beneficial to find out where this Jane (m John Sutherland) and William (m Janet Sutherland) etc were staying. It they're at Balnabruich or Knockally, then they're probably my lot. If you don't have access, I'll probably need to go back to NRH, or perhaps someone else will be kind enough to help out? 
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Logged
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All countries/counties
Kinnes, Ostler, Terras (and all variations!!)
Scotland
Caithness: Sutherland and Gunn (Latheron), Mowat (Olrig, Canisbay)
Fife: Fleming, Harley, Small, Laing, Malcolm
Angus/Forfarshire: Small, Laing (Dundee)
Perthshire: Runciman, Whittet, Paul, Small
Midlothian: Dudgeon, Sanderson (Tranent)
England
Gloucestershire: Edkins, Trowton/Troughton
Warwickshire: Bromley, Vickers, Hydon
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Good point mate, checking the census data would give you more clues.
Unfortunately I don't have access at the moment otherwise I'd be onto it!
Perhaps you should post the scottish census lookups you need (William, Jane, Margaret x 2, Robert & Adam or any other ones you have certain death dates for) seperately with a link to this thread, so it pops up as a new topic?
Fingers crossed hey
Jen
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Just checked my ordinance survey maps of the area and there is an Achastle between Swiney Hill and Burrigill just off the road from Latheron to Lybster (north of Latheron)
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Or perhaps more likely, this Achastle (another name for Langwell Castle)
http://www.rcahms.gov.uk/pls/portal/newcanmore.details_gis?inumlink=8071
http://www.caithness.org/caithness/castles/achastle/index.htm
As later on Neil Sutherland is having a child there too
Possibly a child of Neil's... entry was unfinished, or they hadn't chosen a name!
Niel Sutherland Achastle, Berriedale, had a child named ... (13 May 1812)
So I would deduce from this that Adam (bap Achastle) and Robert (bap Cairn of Berriedale) are your family as Neil is also in the same area later.....
Jen
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Can't find a Lower Millary.....but Millary is described as part of Latheron in other baptisms on the net....so possibly Lower Millary was near there?
But I honestly think that Latheron is too far from Berriedale (if indeed your family were there) to have baptised a child in April 1777 in Berriedale and one in Feb 1777 in Latheron. So I don't think this Margaret is yours
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Checked FreeCEN
and this looks like Adam Sutherland in 1841:
Houstry, Latheron
SUTHERLAND Adam M 70yrs Caithness
SUTHERLAND Elizabeth F 70yrs Caithness
SUTHERLAND William M 5yrs Caithness
And 1851 - Burnside, Latheron
SUTHERLAND Adam Head W M 82yrs Pauper Farmer Caithness - Latheron
And possibly Robert?
1841 - Houstry, Latheron
SUTHERLAND Robert M 60yrs Farmer Caithness
SUTHERLAND Janet F 60yrs Caithness
SUTHERLAND Catherine F 35yrs Caithness
SUTHERLAND William M 25yrs Caithness
SUTHERLAND Robert M 20yrs Caithness
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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