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Topic: 1881/1891 census lookup please - WILLIAMS (Read 498 times)
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HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
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Hi there,
I'm looking for Lewis and Mary Ann Williams and family. On the 1871 census they are just married, living at the village of Garnfach in Nantyglo and I cannot find them at all later.
Lewis' birthplace/date is Hay, Breconshire ca 1848 and Mary Ann's is Aberystruth, Monmouthshire ca 1853. Possible children for them include Sarah, born 1877 in Garnfach and perhaps Thomas and Elizabeth, dates unknown.
Look forward to hearing from you
Helen
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Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington Pembrokeshire: Roberts Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham Somerset: Dawn, Rogers Worcestershire: Price, Saint Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Arranroots
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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Hi Helen
It is unusual to be working forwards!
How do you know of the family - which ones survived and where are they found later?
(eg did they all move to the US or England? Is one of them your forebear & hence grew up married etc?)
How did you decide that this particular family was yours in 1871?
Hoping to help
kind regards, Arranroots 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
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Hi Arranroots,
I guess it does seem a bit odd to be working this way - I'll try to explain!
Lewis and Mary Ann's daughter Sarah is my great-grandmother. I've had huge difficulty locating her before her marriage, as I only had her father's name from her marriage certificate. Recently I've received her birth certificate naming Lewis Williams and Mary Ann (nee James) as her parents.
When I checked all the censuses, the only time I could find them was in 1871 - the correct names and location, but of course, as before, I cannot find them later on, and I was wondering whether fresh eyes might find them for me.
In 1871 also living with them are Lewis' mother, brother and sister, and I can't find them later on either...All I know about Sarah is that she married in 1899 in Llanelly, Breconshire, while resident in Brynmawr - which leaves a lot of missing years!
Hope this explains my strange request!
Helen
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Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington Pembrokeshire: Roberts Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham Somerset: Dawn, Rogers Worcestershire: Price, Saint Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
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Hi there,
I'm still searching for my Williams Family in 1881 and 1891, although I seem to have found them in 1901 in Abertillery with children Lewis, Edith, Tom and John. All the children are born in Garnfach between 1883 and 1894, apart from Tom (it looks like Unknown, overseas or USA  ) and John (Abertillery). However I'm still not convinced this is Sarah's family as she is not with them, also Mary Ann has become Mary Jane, although the birthdates of the parents are the same as the family I found in 1871 in Turkey Town, Garnfach.
Can anyone suggest anywhere else I might look for the family? They don't appear to have moved far in 30 years, unless they were in USA of course, but I don't have the censuses on CD so it makes it very difficult to look them up by address.
Looking forward to your help
Helen
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Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington Pembrokeshire: Roberts Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham Somerset: Dawn, Rogers Worcestershire: Price, Saint Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Not having much luck with this family. I don't think you'll find them in 1891 as 10 year old Tom's unclear birthplace on the 1901 census definitely has the word America followed by BS British Citizen. There was a census in the US in 1890, but most of it was destroyed in a fire.
Think this might be grandmother Mary in 1881
Croes Ciliog (few households away from Hector Inn) Garnvach, Nantyglo RG11/5420 folio 26 pg 46
Mary Williams head widow 80 b. Carms, Llandovery
haven't spotted any of the others as yet in 1881. From the entry in 1861, you can see the inconsistencies in age and birthplace - that doesn't help when the surname is Williams 
11 Little Croes Ciliog (next to Hector Inn) RG9/3997 folio 76 pg 58
Mary Williams head widow 35 b. Carms, Llandovery
John son 27 coal miner b. Govilon
Elizabeth dau 23 a. Aberystruth (deaf and dumb from birth)
William son 16 b. Hereford, Clifford
Lewis son 14 coal miner b. Aberystruth
Now, Mary can't possibly be 35 but that's what it says on the census. The parish of Clifford is only a few miles from Hay.
Still not finding them in any other year!
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
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Thanks for the info, Osprey - it gives me some further leads.
The entry in 1881 certainly looks like the correct Mary Williams (in 1871 census her year of birth is given as 1803, so she would certainly be 80 or thereabouts in 1881) - I was looking for Elizabeth Williams also, as I thought she'd be easy to pick out on the census being deaf and dumb, but no luck.
The idea that they were in the US is interesting as Sarah Williams was born in July 1877 at the Top of Garnfach (per birth cert), so she must've been very young, and also why did they come back by 1901? Also, is it even the correct family as Sarah never appears on a census that I can find ...! So many questions!
Anyway thanks for the help - I'll keep on searching!
Helen
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Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington Pembrokeshire: Roberts Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham Somerset: Dawn, Rogers Worcestershire: Price, Saint Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3625
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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One way to check if the 1901 family is the correct one, would be to ge the birth certificate for one of the children.Lewis is the obvious one - easier to trace
Lewis James Williams june qtr 1883 Bedwelty vol 11a pg 96.
There could be a clue as to why they returned from the US in the 1901 census entry. Lewis senior is enumerated as invalided collier - perhaps they came back for family support?
There is also a Lewis Williams mar aged 43 coalminer b. Nantyglo but with no other family on the 1891 census at 5 Prince St, Nantyglo. RG12/4352 folio 46 pg 25. But if that is your Lewis, that doesn't seem to make any sense if the rest of the family in the US. Usually, the head of the household moves first sending money back to the family, unless he's leading the way back?
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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HistorySeeker
RootsChat Member
Posts: 130
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One way to check if the 1901 family is the correct one, would be to ge the birth certificate for one of the children.Lewis is the obvious one - easier to trace Lewis James Williams june qtr 1883 Bedwelty vol 11a pg 96. There could be a clue as to why they returned from the US in the 1901 census entry. Lewis senior is enumerated as invalided collier - perhaps they came back for family support? There is also a Lewis Williams mar aged 43 coalminer b. Nantyglo but with no other family on the 1891 census at 5 Prince St, Nantyglo. RG12/4352 folio 46 pg 25. But if that is your Lewis, that doesn't seem to make any sense if the rest of the family in the US. Usually, the head of the household moves first sending money back to the family, unless he's leading the way back?
Hi,
sorry to resurrect this thread after so long, but I've been working on the Williams family once again.
I now have the birth certificate for Lewis James Williams born 1883 in Garnvach and it is the same family as Sarah Williams born 1877, which is good news.
Also I think the reason Lewis senior is without the rest of the family in 1891 is that son Tom was born in 1891 in the US, so possibly Mary Ann was heavily pregnant and didn't want to/couldn't travel???
So, all the details I have now fit the picture, with the exception of none of the family apart from Mary Williams Senior being apparent on the 1881 census...
Does anyone have any further suggestions as to where I might search next!
Thanks in advance
Helen
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Monmouthshire: Price, Williams, Jones, Roberts Montgomery: Haycock, Humphreys Herefordshire: Tunley, Meredith, Monnington Pembrokeshire: Roberts Lancashire:Unger, Riley, Dawn, Roberts, Flockhart, Abraham Somerset: Dawn, Rogers Worcestershire: Price, Saint Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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goodyogibear
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,,
I have been looking online for information about a William Unger whose father was a hairdresser in New York and he came to Liverpool. I think he was born in 1862.
Google led me to your "posts" and I wonder if we are talking about the same family. I was shocked to see the information you have seemed to coincide with my family.
Can you please confirm any other information?
I have some information if this is the same person and hope you have some more too.
Who are you in relation to William??
Thank you for your time.
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goodyogibear
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
It's me again. I was just reading about the names you have been researching and the name Flockhart was there. I know that William Unger married an Isabella Flockhart. Does this mean anything to you???
I think you are researching part of my family.
Look forward to your reply.
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goodyogibear
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helen,
You said your husband was the grandson of William Unger.
I was just wondering because I am the great-Grandaughter of William and I am 52 years old.
Which part of the family is your husband from? Is he a descendent of Isabella? Do you mind me asking his name for the family free.
My name is Sue and my Grandma was Margaret (daughter of William & Isabella) and Margaret's eldest daughter was Elsie who was my Mum.
I would appreciate any other information you may have about the family.
My Aunt said when William came to Liverpool he worked on the new sandstone Anglican Liverpool Cathedral, but I don't know what he did.
If I find any more information I will get in touch with you again.
Thanks very much for your time.
Sue
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