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Topic: Graves/symbols/meanings (Read 822 times)
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Ruskie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I know there has been a discussion on rootschat about the meanings of symbols carved on headstones, in particular the skull.
I have a question which has been bugging me for years and I USED to know the answer, but can't for the life of me remember it.
When inside a church you see a 'tomb' with an effigy on top, what is the meaning of the dog at the feet of the effigy? I kindof remember being told that it means that the person died in battle, but don't know if I remember correctly or if this is true. Often the person has crossed legs too - what does this mean? Sometimes there is an animal other than a dog - what does this represent?
I've googled but can't find a definitive answer.
Does anyone know?
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bearkat
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Census Info. is Crown Copyright, from www.national
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I'm sure I read somewhere that a dog at the feet of an effigy symbolised fidelity,
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Middx - Vaus, Roberts, Eversfield, Inman, Star, Holbeck, Wyatt, Bickford, Smith, Redwood
South Stoneham, Hants - Small, Hammerton, Grist, Fryer, Trodd
Beaulieu/Boldre, Hants - Woodford, Croutear, Beck, Bendell, Keeping, Harding
Kent - Bayly, Borer, Mitchell, Plane, Vernon, Farrance, Chapman, Medhurst, Lomax, Wyatt
Devon - Tope, Bickford, Foster
YKS - Quirk, McGuire, Benn
Nott/Derbs - Slack
Hert - Barnes
L'pool- Plumbe
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stanmapstone
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My answers only refer to England and Wales
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Most effigies are depicted with their feet resting on a beast, a lion usually indicates a man and a dog a woman. These figures are more often symbolic than heraldic, however the use of other animals can be significant, for instance the effigies of the Martin family of Athelhampton rest their feet on an ape which was the family crest.
All manner of explanations have been attributed to the detail of effigies. Cross-legged knights were said to have been castrated by the Saracen, while those depicted drawing their swords must surely have died in battle. ("The English Parish Church" by Stephen Friar)
In medieval art dogs frequently symbolize fidelity, and a dog is represented as lying at the feet of St. Bernard.
Stan
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Ruskie
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Thanks for the replies. Stan, I have seen both lions and dogs at the feet of male effigies. Seems as though these symols are open to interpretation. More please - this is interesting.
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stanmapstone
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My answers only refer to England and Wales
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This is some more informaton that I have found:
It is often stated that the legs being crossed means that the knight was a crusader, however there is no evidence to support this. Some antiquarians believe the legs were crossed because it was the fashion of the time and is not a crusader specific feature. However most people believe that so drastic a straining of the figure must have some meaning. It is believed that a crusader who had been once to Palestine, to fight the Saracens, had his legs crossed at the ankles, twice crossed below the knee, and three times crossed above the knee. However, according to one source, a mere vow to serve under the banners of the cross, without actual performance, appears to have given them the right to be represented in this way.
Stan
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Ruskie
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Thanks very much for that Stan.
I vaguely remember being told something about the crusades with reference to effigies. Thinking about it though (and I am in Australia so can't pop out to check for myself unfortunately but I have visited the odd UK church in my time) there are many such effigies in many churches in the British Isles - surely they can't ALL have been in the crusades?
Perhaps that is how the symolism began, maybe the original meaning was lost but effigies continued to be represented in this way because it looked grand and impressive for wealthy families. The dog meaning loyalty makes sense.
Another thing - are the bodies still inside those tombs today? Would the bodies have been placed inside a coffin and then the coffin placed inside the tomb? If they are opened today would there be remains inside?
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Lydart
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RootsChatting about dead ancestors ...
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So glad it doesn't mean the same as when I've got crossed legs !
These two pics are from Hereford Cathedral (ignore my cousin in the second one !)
The first has a dog ... and the second one, so sad, has a child tucked up with the mother ... would this mean the child died with the mother, or later ? Stupidly, I didn't note the names or much detail ... was taking the pics for the cousin ! I'll look closer at these next time I'm in the cathedral ... this is an interesting thread and I want to know more !
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA(The Cariboo, B.C.): Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA (B.C.): Stubbs, Walmesley WRITE LETTERS TO YOUR FAMILY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR FOREVER ! Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Ruskie
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Lovely pictures - thanks for posting them. They're so colourful. I've not noticed any coloured ones before. Perhaps they were all painted originally? I notice no animals at the feet of the couple. I wonder if that is significant? That dog is really lovely - looks like my golden retriever with it's head on the master's knee.
You'd assume that the baby died at a similar time to the mother. I know many of them have their wife beside them. Were those that didn't unmarried or were they not as well off and just went to town on the more important dead person's grave ie. the male? Only joking, but that's probably what they thought.
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Ruskie
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Posts: 3217
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh, I hope that post is still around - I would like to read it. I might go googling again - I couldn't find what I was after last time.
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Lydart
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RootsChatting about dead ancestors ...
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Hello Mods ? Anyone there ? Can you point us to the past thread please ?
(No-one listening ... think they are all out Christmas shopping !)
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA(The Cariboo, B.C.): Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA (B.C.): Stubbs, Walmesley WRITE LETTERS TO YOUR FAMILY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR FOREVER ! Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Img_7182a.jpg
I'm sure that in the early days of Rootschat Chris 1066 put up a thread which covered the meanings of grave stone symbols etc 