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Topic: Stuck on Neale of Lambeth (Read 1059 times)
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Valda
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Considering potential errors on censuses have you been able to eliminate the Neale family in Newington on the 1891 census?
RG12 360 folio 115
21 Doctor Newington St Mary London
Charles Neale 37 St Mary Newington, London, Head Married Carman
Eliza Neale 28 St Mary Newington, London, Wife Married
William Neale 5 St Mary Newington, London, Son
What occupation did Charles have at his death?
What age would their son William have been in 1891?
Do you have a birth certificate for any child born after 1891 - what was the address given?
A not inconsistent age for Charles on the 1891 census given the age he gave on the 1881 census (perhaps beginning to move it down for a younger wife). Given the age you give for Alice this would be spot on for her age. The 1881 census has an Alice E. Day of about the right age born Newington. Was this Alice who married Charles (Alice Eleanor)? Not to far from Eleanor to Eliza?
Regards
Valda
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Lemontree
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Hello
On William Henry Neale's marriage certificate (William being Charles son - born 1885) It states that Charles occupation was a chemist and that he was deceased - the marriage was in April 1908 and William 's age is given as 22.
This would make William 5/6 on the 1891 census - so the correct age. Alice has signed the marriage certificate as a witness - she has signed it as just Alice Ebswith.
I hadn't got any other names for children born to Charles and Alice - one reason I wanted to find them on the 1891 census - so I could get siblings names.
On the 1901 census Alice is living with George Elsworth, who is a fishmonger mistranscribed as 'ebworth', they are living a 132 Sumner Road, Camberwell. Arthur is 5 years and Albert Neale is 9 years are two sons living with them - both born after 1891 - so I dont know if there are any more children between William and Arthur and Albert. I havn't got a birth certificate for any other children.
I have to admit it was late last night when I looked at the address of Elizabeth Street and the number should be 27 - I am sorry not 22.
I asked my own grandmother as much as I could, I made as many notes as possible aswell - I have found in the notes I made that William Neale (my grandmothers father) was occording to her about 6 years old when Caroline/Elanora died
I think Charles moved his age as his wife was so young - he would have been around 12 years older than she was, so he just knocked a few years of!! Although if its genetic that wouldn't be a problem as all the men through the generations could knock 10-15 years of their age.
Thank you again for helping and your time.
Lemon
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Valda
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Lemon,
The eldest child is Alfred on the 1901 census is this another census error? Otherwise this is the likeliest birth registration for him.
Births Sep 1891
Neale Alfred George St. Saviour 1d 149
His birth details might help confirm the 1891 census entry address if it is the right family.
On marriage people had a tendency to improve their father's occupation and status or certainly give the best occupation he had, if later he fell on harder times (only of course if the local vicar didn't know any better). Or if this is the right family on the 1891 census Charles' occupation is an error.
Regards
Valda
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Barbara F
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Lemon
Apologies here too - I looked up no 12 
Have checked 22 and 27 but with no luck.
Barbara
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Joy, Larkin, Twort, Baker, Whibley - Brenchley and Horsmonden area Kent Fewell and Speller - Essex and London Headington and Bateman - London Feltwell - Norfolk and London Lewin - India and NZ Evan-Thomas - Wales and London Purser and Cook - Hunts Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lemontree
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Hello,
Thank you for looking at Elizabeth street residents and thank you also for the vol and page number for the birth of Alfred George Neale. I shall order that certificate and see what comes back.
Lemon
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JAP
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Hi Lemon,
Came across this thread today and got interested in your puzzle. Perhaps by now you have sorted it out? Here are a couple of snippets in case they might be of interest.
From FreeBMD:
William John Tyler NEALE's birth was registered at Newington, Mar qtr 1847 and his death at Bermondsey Jun qtr 1849. Given the name, this is surely another son of Henry/Isaac and Eleanora/Helen/Caroline.
Charles Isaac NEALE's birth (you have that certificate) was registered at Bermondsey, Jun qtr 1849.
The birth of a George NEAL (note spelling) was registered at Bermondsey, Dec qtr 1850. This would fit with the age of the 5-month old George on the 1851 census.
The birth certificates of William John Tyler NEALE and of George NEAL just might have some clues that could help.
If this George NEAL is the same as the census George, the registration at Bermondsey might perhaps mean that Eleanor/Helen/Caroline was still living with Henry/Isaac at that stage ...
Incidentally, the fact that, in the 1846 marriage, both parties were recorded as minors could simply mean that Henry/Isaac was actually a minor and his bride therefore fibbed about her age - perhaps she had fibbed to the groom or perhaps she was just embarrassed to admit to the officials that she was marrying a younger man. I suspect that she truly was the Elinor Maria Caroline TYLER, parents John TYLER and Elizabeth, b 19 Mar, bap 11 Jun 1821, St Mary Newington (also at St Mary, with parents of the same names, is a John Thomas TYLER, b 1 Nov 1816, bap 5 Jan 1817).
Cheers,
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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Lemontree
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Hi
Thank you Jap - thats very kind to pass on this information. I am at the moment waiting for funds so that I can purchase some certificates and shall add this to the list.
Lemon
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