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Topic: Death in WW2 bombing raid (Read 2987 times)
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Valda
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1891 census RG12 698 folio 19
High Street Charing Kent
William J Edmed 43 Ashford, Kent, Head Married Plumber & Painter
Clara J Edmed 39 British Subject, Belgium Wife Married
Clara E J Edmed 13 Charing, Kent, Daughter
William G Edmed 11 Charing, Kent, Son
Lizzie M Edmed 9 Charing, Kent, Daughter
Daisy A Edmed 5 Charing, Kent, Daughter
John M Edmed 3 Charing, Kent, Son
Alice Sweetlove 33 British Subject, Belgium Single Visitor
plus 1 servant
Clara Edmed junior intriguingly gives her status as single in 1901 and is using her maiden name.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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The only other incidence of the surname Screve in FreeBMD occur in West Ashford registration district. There are only these two.
Births Mar 1899
Screve Rosamond W. Ashford 2a 834
Deaths Sep 1899
Screve Rosamund 0 W. Ashford 2a 573
There are no Screves in any England & Wales, Isle of Mann and Channel Island census indexes 1841-1901 that I have checked.
Divorce was difficult and expensive for a woman to obtain pre the First World War. She would need to prove adultery and desertion or cruelty. Desertion alone would not be enough. If Clara was deserted that might very well be the reason why she was unable legally to marry Arthur Offley if this is the correct woman.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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Marriages Mar 1877
Edmed William James W. Ashford 2a 825
Sweetlove Clara Jane W. Ashford 2a 825
Screve appears to be a French surname.
1871 census RG10 956 folio 27
High Street Charing Kent
Simmonds J Sweetlove 19 Belgium Boarder Unmarried Painter(Apprentice)
William J Edmed 23 Ashford, Kent, Boarder Unmarried Painter Plumber & Glazier
This is the only Sweetlove born Belgium on the 1871 census. On the 1881 census there are three.
RG11 174 folio 68
5 Upper Park Road Hampstead St Johns London
Mary T. Sweetlove 37 Ostend (B S), Belgium Servant Unmarried Housemaid
And more interestingly
RG11 919 folio 32
Angel Hotel 1 High Street Tonbridge Kent
Elizabeth Sweetlove 32 Brussells, Belgium Lodger Unmarried
Adolphe Sweetlove 9 Rouen, France Lodger
Leonard Sweetlove 4 Brussells, Belgium Lodger
1861 census RG9 394 folio 45
11 St. Nicholas Street Deptford St Paul Kent
Jane Sweetlove 37 Berwick on Tweed Widow
Elizabeth Sweetlove 13 Ostend Belgium Daughter
Clara Sweetlove 10 Ostend, Belgium Daughter
Simmonds Sweetlove 8 Ostend, Belgium Son
Marriages Mar 1898
Edmed Clara Ellen J Greenwich 1d 1134
Screve Leonard Thomas S Greenwich 1d 1134
Leonard Sweetlove, Clara's cousin would appear to have been illegitimate - was his father's name Screve? On Leonard Thomas Screve's marriage the S. might be for Sweetlove.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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Interesting use of the surname Payne in the Sweetlove family. It might very well be a coincidence or it could indicate why the choice of the Payne alias.
Marriages Mar 1878
Sweetlove Simmonds John W Ashford 2a 821
possible spouse
Buller Alice Ann W. Ashford 2a 821
Births Dec 1879
Sweetlove Simmonds Payne W.Ashford 2a 719
Deaths Sep 1880
SWEETLOVE Simmonds John 28 W. Ashford 2a 409
Simmonds junior is on the 1881 census with his mother and older sister in Charing.
Marriages Dec 1901
SWEETLOVE Simmonds Payne Farnham 2a 223
either
COCKERTON Cecilia Charlotte Farnham 2a 223
or
Green Alice Louise Farnham 2a 223
Regards
Valda
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aghadowey
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Have been reading the above postings with great interest. It certainly is a challenge to get to the truth. Here's a few thoughts:
1. Clara Ellen J. Ehmed, daughter of William James Ehmed & Clara Jane Sweetlove, born 1878 West Ashford, Kent area.
2. Clara Ellen J. Ehmed marries 1898 Leonard Thomas S. Screve (her cousin?).
3. Leonard & Clara Screve have a daughter Rosamond Screve, born Jan-Mar.1899 West Ashford, Kent area.
4. Rosamond Screve died a few months later in July-Sept.1899.
5. At this point perhaps the marriage of Leonard & Clara Sreve breaks up. Have been unable to locate Leonard in 1901 Census.
6. Clara Ehmed, born Charing Kent 1877, is servant at Sandgate in 1901. Also found is Arthur Offley (possible father of Muriel).
7. Muriel born 27 May 1913. Father listed as Arthur Offley. Living at Handsworth, Birmingham.
8. Muriel's marriage gives father as Arthur Payne, painter & decorator. It's most likely that Muriel's mother had told her these details. Now, Clara's father was painter & plumber. Also, According to information I found posted on ancestry.com William Sweetlove from Ashford Kent (right area) married Anna Payne (is this where father's surname on marriage certificate came from?) and moved to Belgium in 1830s/1840s.
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Valda
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Clara Jane Sweetlove's mother would appear to be called Jane born Berwick on Tweed - see 1861 census entry in Deptford. I think the Sweetlove family were possibly in Greenwich by 1841.
I'm not sure who William Sweetlove from West Ashford was or when he married Anna Payne can you give specific details?
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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A bit far back to make a connection to at least immediately?
Kent, Surrey, London: - Canterbury Marriage Licences, 1781-1809
Volume 32
fol 123 1786
County: Kent
Wm Sweetlove of Ashford grazier bach & Ann Paine of the s sp. 20 Sep 1786.
You would need the details from Clara Sweetlove and William Edmed's marriage for Clara's father's name.
Regards
Valda
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aghadowey
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I know the connection is back a bit but it does bring the surname Payne into the Sweetlove family. The point is that maybe Muriel's mother put together a story by taking bits from here and there. What I was suggesting is only a series of possibilites.
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Valda
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The Greenwich Sweetloves also use the first name of Simmonds. The oldest Simmonds Sweetlove I can find was born Wye Kent circa 1793.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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This might be the most likely marriage for Clara's parents.
Marriages Jun 1847
Sweetlove Simmons John Bermondsey 4 15
either
MACE Jane Bermondsey 4 15
or
Paxton Emma Bermondsey 4 15
or
Rossiter Leonora Bermondsey 4 15
or
Taylor Mary Ann Bermondsey 4 15
but Clara's marriage details would be necessary to confirm or eliminate this possibility.
Regards
Valda
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Carole B
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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I'm so sorry - I'm finding all these new names very confusing.
In truth, as I explained in the two page 'story and known details' post - I can go NO further back really than my mothers marriage certificate (1936) and her birth certificate (1913).
I am - at this stage anyway - NOT looking to go further back than perhaps the birth of my grandmother who was, as explained, known to me only as Nina Edmed. I would be so pleased to know the following about her:
When she was born.
Where she was born.
Who (if anyone) did she marry.
Where/when did she marry.
When did she die.
Where did she die.
At the moment anything beyond that I wouldn't know what to do with.
Sorry. It's just that I NEVER expected such a huge and detailed response. If I'm honest - I really didn't expect to get anywhere at all with so little information. Just shows doesn't it!
I just don't know where to go from here.....
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Valda
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'Nina' did not die between 1940-1945 in England according to the GRO indexes with a death registration in the surname Edmed whatever her first name on her death registration was.
Have you checked whether a death took place in Kent between 1940-1945 for a Nina (or a Clara) Payne or Offley?
You can check the GRO indexes here
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
If you find a possible/s death, the age and name at death might give the necessary to proof to connect your 'Nina' (probably a petname) to the information which has been given you, or help eliminate Clara Ellen Jane Edmed as a possibility for 'Nina'. What you know already is there is no birth registration for a Nina Edmed in England and Wales, so if she was born in England she was born with a different first name to 'Nina' and at this point the hypothesis is it was Clara Ellen J.
Regards
Valda
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Kevwood
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Hi Carole,
I think the main points are these, which may lead to you being able to find something out about "Nina"
Carole,
This maybe something??
1901 census: Sandgate, Folkstone
There is an Arthur Offley (servant) with a Clara EDMED (servant) both working for Herbert Simons(grocer). He was born Willenhall, Stafford and she was born Charing, Kent. Both born in 1877
RG13 848 folio 90 page 10.
Kev.
Then:
Births Jun 1878
Edmed Clara Ellen J W. Ashford 2a 713
(initial F on FreeBMD but checked on GRO index and it is J)
West Ashford registration district covers Charing
Which makes this entry just a bit interesting - no other Clara Ellen Js.
Marriages Mar 1898
Edmed Clara Ellen J Greenwich 1d 1134
either
FOX Arthur Greenwich 1d 1134
or
Screve Leonard Thomas S Greenwich 1d 1134
No other Clara birth registrations in Kent.
Regards
Valda
And the fact that Clara gives her status as single and is using her maiden name in 1901, which hits at something being amiss.
These hopefully answer some of the questions about when and where she was born, who she married(first anyway).
It may not be her, but it looks really promising.
Kev. 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk wood,west,williams,morgan,sollars,hawker,snell,roach,clark,symons. In bristol,fremington,instow,rhymney,colyton |
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loo
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Carole, what is happening here is that people are going further back in history in order to find good clues to help you answer the more modern questions that you are asking, since, as you know, the answers are not readily evident. This is the way genealogy sometimes needs to be done.
Just to (hopefully) throw some perspective on it, I have a rellie who had an "illegitimate" son at the age of 25 while unmarried. She kept the child, but his birth certificate information is, shall we say, "creative", in other words it is not accurate. I would have looked in vain for her death if someone had not tipped me off to the fact that she had married much later. She both married and died under a different combination of forenames than the ones she was born with, and each was different from the other. And her surname at death was her married name. She lived to be almost 100, so it turned out that there were a lot of years to cover!
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ARMSTRONG - Castleton Scot, Westminster Twp
BARFIELD - Nailsea & NL
BRAKE - Nailsea
BURIATTE
CANDY - M'sex, Deptford
CLIFFORD - Maidstone
DURE(E) - France, Devon, Canada
HALLS - Chigwell
KREIN
LEOPOLD - Hanover, London
LATTIMER - lightermen
MAXWELL - lightermen
MEYER - Lauenstein
MURRAY - Scot.borders
STEWART - Chelsea; Reach
SWANICK - Co.Mayo & Roscommon; Ontario
WEST - Rochester & Maidstone
WILLIS - Wilts, Berks, Hants, London
WOODHOUSE - Bristol, London
WW1 internments
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janan
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Sorry. It's just that I NEVER expected such a huge and detailed response. If I'm honest - I really didn't expect to get anywhere at all with so little information. Just shows doesn't it!
I just don't know where to go from here.....
Carole
You have unleashed the combined forces of the Rootschat detectives
As loo says you often need to go backwards to make sense of what happened later. With one of my illegitmate ancestors I had to do a lot of tracking over the censuses and births and marriages in order to connect the putative father from East Horsley Surrey with the mother in Lilley Herts - it was very exciting when it all came together. So hang on in there - hopefully it will all make sense when you have had time to ponder all the information. Kev gives a good summary of the main points.
Happy hunting
Jan 
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ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.ukbedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell buckinghamshire- pain cambridgeshire- bird, carver hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey derbyshire- allsop, noon devon - griffin, love, rapsey dorset- rendall, gale somerset- rendall, churchill surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge |
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