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Topic: Which of your ancestors have disappeared? (Read 6798 times)
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MarieC
RootsChat Marquessate
 Online
Posts: 3087
In Queensland, Oz
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AARRGH!!
Surely I'm not the only Rootschatter whose ancestors have disappeared without trace!
Maybe if we all list them, we'll eventually find the black hole where they are all clustered and laughing at us!
I have two in the nineteenth century. I've looked, Rootschatters have looked - nowhere! Gone!
Edward Martin, London, last found in 1851 census. Wife Mary listed as married, and supporting herself, in 1861 and 1871 - widowed in 1881. Cannot find him, or a death among all the Edward Martins which is him (and I have several wrong death certs!).
Eleanor Bentley, London, last found in 1861 census. No subsequent sign, and no deaths which could be her.
Again, with feeling - AARRGH!!!!
Who are yours?
MarieC
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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 746
Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Hi Marie
I feel your pain 
I have a John Carrington who never died.
It's none of my business, but have you checked out re-marriages for Eleanor Bentley?? I found one of my gg grandmother's remarried 18 years after her first husband died... the clincher was the 2nd husband was a witness at my g grandfather's wedding. So you never know.
Edward might have gone to sea and died out of the UK eg? Or maybe ran off with another woman and changed his name???
Oh, the books we could write, spun from the tales of all our Rootschatter ancestors!!
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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MarieC
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 3087
In Queensland, Oz
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Hi Heather! 
Yes, checked for remarriages for Eleanor - none found. Yes, either of the scenarios you mention for Edward, or more, could apply! I've even been tempted to think they ran off with each other!!!  I could make a great story out of it all!
When and where was your John Carrington when last heard of?
MarieC
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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland
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KathMc
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2623
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What a great topic. There will be a lot of venting here. I have gr-gr grandpa William C. Davis, born between 1851 and 1854 in Princeton, New Jersey (so he says!). I have him on church records when he is conditionally baptised 4 days before his wedding, in 1874. I have him in the 1880 census and 1900 census with his family in Orange, NJ. His wife Bridget (Delia) dies in 1906 and is buried at St. John's, Orange, NJ. No hide nor hair of Willie. We have done paid searches in Princeton for pre-1874 stuff and we can't find him definitively. And after 1900, he has disappeared. And he isn't buried with Bridget.
I also have two of another gr-gr grandfather's brothers, who I have no idea what happened to them. Michael Hayes, born Ireland about 1845, came with parents to England. The family settled in Staffordshire (for one generation). The youngest, George Hayes, b. 1865 in Huntington, is also missing. They are both gone from the 1881 census and that's that. I might have a lead on Michael but it is proving hard to confirm. Apparently, my gg grandfather, James, never spoke of Michael or George, only his other two siblings, Mary Jane (died when she was 15) and John (moved to Australia and we are in touch with his descendants). I wonder if there was a falling out
Kath
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Sligo: Davey (also Mayo), McCluskey, McNulty
Wexford and Staffordshire: Hayes, McClean
Galway and Staffordshire: Scott
Coventry: Wells, Collins, Palmer, Moody, Beck, Mickelwright, Husbands
Ireland: McNulty (Sligo), Kealy, Murphy (Carlow) Connolly, Gillen, Powell, Ryan, Moore, Martin
Davis from I don't know where originally
Stahl, Russia to England to USA
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MarieC
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 3087
In Queensland, Oz
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That's really frustrating, Kath!! As you say, perhaps there was a family falling out. But your gr-gr-grandpa - you have searched thoroughly, and nothing! Where the devil is he?? (Mine are g-g-grandparents, too!)
There's got to be a black hole somewhere...
MarieC
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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 746
Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Hi Marie
my 3g grandfather, John Carrington, lead miner. His wife Barbra, age 60, is listed as widow on the 1851 Census of Bersham. The youngest child at home is listed as son John, age 17 on the 1851, which indicates that John would have lived until 1832 or so. 
John's mother Jane was living in Llandegla in 1841, age 75, at the home of her son Aaron Carrington and family. I've searched the following with no result:
North Wales BMD between 1837 and 1851
1841 census of Llandegla - no other Carrington families - of course most of 1841 for the area is not available
Every page of the death registers available for Carringtons from 1837 to 1851 inclusive
IGI family search
The only conclusion I've come to is that he must have died between 1832 and 1837 and that the burial would be recorded in parish records for Llandegla or other close parishes, but NOT FOUND YET!!! OR he died somewhere else AFTER 1837 other than in Ruthin, Holywell or Wrexham reg districts (highly unlikely) Am sick and tired of ordering death certificates - could paper the powder room wall!! Because I live in Canada it gets very expensive to keep buying PRs looking for just one death. Will just have to hope that if and when the PRs for Wales go on line one day I may find him again. Perhaps he was abducted by aliens! Having said all that someone will probably find him in about five minutes now!! Never mind I'm not proud I just want to find him
Kath is right - this is a great topic - there should be a thread for SUPER brickwalls Like a confessional!! If nothing else it would provide a place to moan in "private"
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 746
Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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It was far too easy for men in particular to disappear back in the 1800s
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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MarieC
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 3087
In Queensland, Oz
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Hmmm, Heather!
Think you are right, it is most likely that he died between 1832 and 1837. Do you know if he and his family were C of E?? Otherwise, he could have been buried from a non-conformist church like Methodist.
I know that the C of E in Wales hasn't allowed the LDS to film most of their records, which means that these aren't available to the likes of you and me, which is very frustrating! He is probably languishing in parish records of either the established or a non-conformist church somewhere. Can you persuade anyone to take a look??
A little story to cheer you. I looked for months/years for the marriage of two of my ggggrandparents in the north of England. It nearly drove me round the twist. I got in to the LDS films of all the possible parish records - they were definitely C of E. Didn't find them. But I noticed that the films were of Bishops Transcripts, and that there were a couple of pages missing from one of the really likely parishes, for likely years too. So I pleaded on the appropriate board, and a very kind R/Chatter went to the Records Office and looked at the original PRs - and found the marriage, in a year which was missing from the BTs!!! I was over the moon!
MarieC
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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 746
Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Thanks for the encouragement I know the family eventually became Wesleyans but back in the 1830s I think they were still C of E.... Part of the trouble is that there were so many of the same name in a relatively small group of villages - so every time I think I've found him it turns out he is not the one!!
BTW the latest Gwynedd Roots magazine says that the LDS have struck a deal to put all the Welsh PRs into digital format so eventually there may be enlightenment 
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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hepburn
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2584
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have an ancestor who Appeared. My GGrandfather came to Stoke on Trent sometime in the mid 1860s from Canada,I can't find his birth,I can't find him in either the 1851 Canada census or the 1861,he is a mystery..
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stoke on trent. carson,wain,leese,shaw,key,scalley,mitchell, hepburn,finney,james, nottingham,pollard,grice, derbyshire,vallands,turton,howe. new zealand,turton canada,carson. australia,mitchell,scalley,   |
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MarieC
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 3087
In Queensland, Oz
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Gosh, Oonagh - that's a problem at the other end of life!!
Don't suppose he could have been born or spent time in the US, before going to Canada (and eventually to England)?
MarieC
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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland
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hiraeth
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 746
Tyn-y-Capel, Minera
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Hi Oonagh
His name wasn't Edward Martin by any chance was it?? Sorry Marie couldn't resist!!
Heather
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCARRINGTON, ROBERTS, WILLIAMS, FOULKES, WYNN, BLUNT, JONES Denbighshire. DAVIES, OWEN, JONES, WILLIAMS, THOMAS, EVANS, MORGAN, SOLOMAN, GRIFFITHS Caernarfonshire & Anglesey THATCHER, HILLIER, PARISH Surrey APPLETON, MALTHOUSE, GLOVER Hertfordshire MCDONALD & SOUPER Aberdeen c1800 |
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hepburn
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2584
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Marie,
I don't know! anything is possible,how do I work it out?
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stoke on trent. carson,wain,leese,shaw,key,scalley,mitchell, hepburn,finney,james, nottingham,pollard,grice, derbyshire,vallands,turton,howe. new zealand,turton canada,carson. australia,mitchell,scalley, |
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MarieC
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 3087
In Queensland, Oz
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No, no, Heather, Edward Martin DISappeared, didn't appear - pay attention!!
Oonagh, I'm not up with US records but I'm sure there are ways to get access to their censuses and bdm records. Hopefully someone from the US will read this thread and tell us! Their 1880 census is on the LDS website but that's too late for you...
Come to think of it, I should probably check for Edward Martin on the US death records if I could find them, just in case... !! 
MarieC
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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland
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Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1567
R.H.D. 1884
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Hi MarieC,
I can empathise with your post!
I have a Great Grandfather, Thomas Louis Newman, who appears on my Grandmother's Birth Cert in 1902, - Occupation 'Comedian'
...& then disappears!! I haven't been able to (conclusively) find any other records for him:-(
According to my Grandmother, he had another wife & family, - but I'm unable to verify this. I've never been able to find any record of him marrying my Great Grandmother, Frances Dyer, - although she calls herself Newman on my G/Mother's Birth Cert, - & her name is given as Frances Newman on her Death Cert.
It is very frustrating!!!
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson Brunton Rees Davies Warren Dyer Newman Hamilton Young |
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